ly love that about. Yeah. Um, what I\'m thinking about tech right now, we\'re, we\'re seeing a situation where one of the biggest social networks has been bought by a single individual and love them, hate \'em, or don\'t even care about \'em.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:29:00] It\'s making some pretty big changes to the product itself and the audience that uses it. And one of the things that I love about WordPress is that it\'s open. And you know, a lot of people want to blame one specific person for things. And yeah, of course he\'s influential, but he doesn\'t control the whole project.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so I think it\'s made me more grateful, um, seeing how it can go wrong when you have just that one super rich guy that can make all the shots. And then you have WordPress where it really is, you know, power to the people</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> and you can fork it. I don\'t think you can fork Twitter, but you can\'t fork WordPress and it has been forked.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>It has. So even if there are powerful structures, you can still take the code and and go elsewhere. Yeah. Decentralization is definitely something that I\'ve heard a lot from members and in these interviews because it\'s uh, really key in part of the power [00:30:00] WordPress is that, um, it can power everything from my little blog on my stage inside principle, uh, to you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Uh, very big house in Washington DC that happens to be white. Yeah. And so like, it\'s, it\'s crazy. All the applications. I, uh, as I\'ve talked to agency owners and, and technical people, what WordPress is being used for, but at the core, that open source philosophy really resonates and. Powerful. And I think we\'re seeing that, like from what you\'re saying too, is like we\'re seeing that the power that WordPress is and continues to be, it\'s not owned necessarily by one person.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>It can be used, the freedom that we have</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Jessica Frick:</strong> and people are building cool things to go with it. You know, things on top of it. You know, before we started recording, we were talking about the world of podcasting and the things that are built to, you know, work alongside it, you know, pocket casts and various others.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Um, we were talking about custom applications that people are building. I think WordPress itself is going to [00:31:00] continue as a building block for a lot of other cool technology in the future. And, So excited to see it happen and honestly I hope one of the ideas is mine cuz I feel like you and I would be really good, rich people.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> Yes, totally. I think we would very generous . Just Rick, thank you so much. Can you tell people, uh, where to find more about you in principal?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Jessica Frick:</strong> Yes. Come visit us at pressable.com and if you wanna find me, I am in the post status slack. Um, if you\'re not in post status, let\'s fix that problem first. Uh, but you can also find me at renewable.com if you want.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Cory Miller:</strong> Awesome. Thanks so much. Yes, for the time today, and I hope you\'ll go check out our principal dot com\'s offerings and see what we\'re talking about.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Jessica Frick:</strong> Thanks, Cory.</p>\n<p>This article was published at Post Status — the community for WordPress professionals.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 14 Dec 2022 21:37:24 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"Olivia Bisset\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:42;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:98:\"WPTavern: #55 – Dennis Dornon on How Partnerships Have Helped Grow His WordPress Plugin Business\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:48:\"https://wptavern.com/?post_type=podcast&p=140323\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:112:\"https://wptavern.com/podcast/55-dennis-dornon-on-how-partnerships-have-helped-grow-his-wordpress-plugin-business\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:47001:\"Transcript<div>\n<p>[00:00:00] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Welcome to the Jukebox podcast from WP Tavern. My name is Nathan Wrigley.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Jukebox is a podcast, which is dedicated to all things WordPress. The people, the events, the plugins, the blocks, the themes, and in this case, how finding partners might boost your WordPress business?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;d like to subscribe to the podcast, you can do that by searching for WP Tavern in your podcast player of choice. Or by going to WPTavern.com forward slash feed forward slash podcast. And you can copy that URL into most podcast players.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you have a topic that you&#8217;d like us to feature on the podcast, I&#8217;m very keen to hear from you and hopefully get you or your idea, featured on the show. Head to WPTavern.com forward slash contact forward slash jukebox, and use the form there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So on the podcast today, we have Dennis Dormon. Dennis is the founder of MainWP. A WordPress plugin which enables you to manage multiple WordPress websites from a single dashboard. As you&#8217;ll hear, the business has changed over the years, as Dennis has learned more about the plugins&#8217; target audience.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;re a solo developer, or a working for a small team, bringing your WordPress product into the market can be very rewarding, but it can also be hard. Given the scale of the market, it&#8217;s likely that your product has got an audience. But with the time and resources being limited, it might be hard to break through and be widely discovered.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Dennis talks today about how, in the recent past, he&#8217;s been trying out working with partners as an effective way to increase the plugins reach. As you&#8217;ll hear, it&#8217;s a strategy that he&#8217;s enamored with, given the right partner.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We start off by talking about why Dennis built MainWP, and who the plugin was originally aimed at. And it&#8217;s not what you might expect.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We then get into how Dennis is working out his partnerships as he goes. What is it he&#8217;s looking for in a partner? Not all companies in the WordPress space are going to be a good fit. And so he explains how it&#8217;s important that all partners have some skin in the game, and know what part of the deal they have to uphold. What are the things that need to be considered before the partnership begins? And how do you make sure that all the parties are keeping up their end of the bargain?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>It turns out that MainWP is a business which is in just about the perfect spot for bringing on partners. But if you&#8217;re a developer and have not considered this type of approach with your business, this podcast is for you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;re interested in finding out more you can find all of the links in the show notes by heading to WPTavern.com forward slash podcast. Where you&#8217;ll find all the other episodes as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so, without further delay, I bring you Dennis Dormon.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I am joined on the podcast today by Dennis Dornon. Hello, Dennis.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:03:40] <strong>Dennis Dornon:</strong> Hey, Nathan. How are you?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:03:42] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Very, very well. Dennis and I have had a little bit of a chat before the podcast began, and it&#8217;s been a pleasure getting to know him. You&#8217;re going to get to know him over the next few minutes. Dennis, we always ask our guests right at the beginning, there&#8217;s some kind of orientation question, just trying to figure out who you are and where you come from.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I&#8217;m wondering if you&#8217;d spend a few moments just telling us what it is that you do in the WordPress space and how you&#8217;ve become part of the WordPress community. You can take that in any which way you like and go back as far or as near as you wish.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:04:14] <strong>Dennis Dornon:</strong> Hello everyone. I&#8217;m Dennis Dornon with MainWP, WordPress manager plugin that allows you to maintain multiple WordPress sites from one central dashboard. The MainWP plugin allows you to perform most of your daily WordPress maintenance tasks, such as updating your plugins, backups, uptime monitoring things like that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And since MainWP is a self hosted WordPress plugin, it allows you to do all that while remaining privacy focused and not relying on any third party solutions like many other WordPress managers.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:04:40] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So when did you discover WordPress? How far do we go back?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:04:44] <strong>Dennis Dornon:</strong> I would say probably about 10 years ago is when I really started getting into it. About 10 to 12 years ago I was full-time affiliate marketing and had a few hundred websites, mostly focused on the automotive industry. And at that time I just did real cookie cutter sites that just did PHP changes from a flat file where, like I would change the city name, make model, and just put those out.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But then Google started changing their algorithm, so you couldn&#8217;t really have the cookie cutter sites anymore if you wanted to continue to rank. That&#8217;s when I started exploring WordPress. Slowly moved those few hundred sites over into WordPress. And then I quickly realized once you have a few hundred sites, I think in my case it was close to 500 sites, that maintaining those could be quite a pain in the neck.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And that&#8217;s when we started looking to different solutions that were already out there. But none of them gave us the privacy we were really looking for. Both me and the co-founder came from an affiliate background, so we wanted everything to stay completely private and no one to have any of our information.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Started developing our own solution for WordPress and we actually went with using WordPress as the backbone since we didn&#8217;t have to worry about login, security and making all those things for ourselves and just built it as a plugin itself.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:05:54] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> That&#8217;s really fascinating. Kind of interesting that it was a scratch your own itch type of product. We&#8217;re here today, we&#8217;re going to talk about a slightly different subject because a little while ago I put out a tweet and I was asking for people to suggest topics that maybe of interest to listeners of this podcast. And Dennis reached out and so we got connected and we&#8217;d settled on the topic of, the idea of partnerships within the WordPress space. So, I&#8217;m just going to map out in broad outline what I think we&#8217;re going to talk about, and then we&#8217;ll see if the conversation goes in that direction or not.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, Dennis has a history, or at least I should say MainWP, whether it&#8217;s Dennis or other people, I&#8217;m not entirely sure, has a history of connecting with other WordPress companies to mix up what they&#8217;re doing. So MainWP with partner A and MainWP with partner B. And try to figure out if there&#8217;s ways that they can rub each other&#8217;s backs, and help each other along the journey to growing and what have you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So you have a product and you have lots of partnerships. I guess the easiest way to begin this subject is, can you just lay out some examples of people that you have partnered with in the past and how those partnerships have developed. Just to give us a little bit of a picture of how this all works.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:07:14] <strong>Dennis Dornon:</strong> Sure we really just got into partnerships. We have a lot of extensions that work with other plugins, but I wouldn&#8217;t really call those partnerships. Those were more along the lines of what you were saying earlier of kind of scratching our own itch. So we put out our first kind of partnership way back in 2015 with our first third party extensions. So, about a year into our existence, we actually started going out and working with other plugins.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The problem at that time is we didn&#8217;t tell them we were actually working with them, so we would just go out and build these extensions and then be like, hey, we got an extension for you. And they&#8217;d be like, thank you. That&#8217;d pretty much be the end of the partnership. But it helped our users, especially with our first ones, which was a backup extension, Updraft Plus. And then we, I believe one of our first extensions was also a Yoast extension.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But these weren&#8217;t true partnerships. It wasn&#8217;t until probably the last year or two that we actually started to get into real partnerships, where we talked to the other company, before we built an extension for them so that we could, uh, grow out from there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Some of the current ones that we have out are of course, SEOPress, which we just launched earlier this month. Atarim a couple months ago. Before that WPvivid Backups made their own extension and WP White Hat Security made an activity log extension. Those were more true partnerships where we work together to find a common solution.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But most of these were just a, I would call them code development partnerships. So we were both kind of working in the development of it. Where I failed at would be the co-marketing portion of it. So even though we had grown and had actually started working with the other companies on building these extensions, instead of just building them ourselves, we still weren&#8217;t getting the word out appropriately that we now had official partnerships with these different companies. So we&#8217;d launch the partnership, announce it for a day or two, and then kind of let it die.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Die might be the wrong word. We didn&#8217;t do too much with it, we just kind of hoped they would grow on their own if you follow what I&#8217;m saying there. We didn&#8217;t really learn until the, well, I didn&#8217;t learn until the Atarim partnership, how to correctly co-market. And that has really jumped up our actual partnerships. People coming in for partnerships. Partnership requests have all gone up.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Really from what Vito Peleg showed us with our partnership with Atarim, and how to not only do the co-development, but the co-marketing, and co-marketing is what you generally see from, when you see a partnership in WordPress that&#8217;s, you know, where you&#8217;re on each other&#8217;s mailing list, social, things like that. And you do it for a short amount of time.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So now we have that perfect combination for a partnership of both co-development and co-marketing. Why co-development helps is it gets the other person to have skin in the game with you. So you both, you both have something to lose if the co-marketing doesn&#8217;t go well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:09:58] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So towards the beginning of your endeavors, you mentioned 2013 or something like that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:10:03] <strong>Dennis Dornon:</strong> 2015.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:10:03] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> 2015, Sorry, yeah. You mentioned that the business was growing and, I guess at that point you didn&#8217;t really know that partnerships could be a thing, and so you just looked out into the WordPress ecosystem and thought what would be a good thing for us to build? And how can we help our customer base that exists already? And so you just built it yourself, shipped it, and maybe had some kind of email interaction with the originators of that plugin? Maybe not. It just went out there. But the point was it was all within your silo.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And more recently, in the last year, as you&#8217;ve described, you figured out that there&#8217;s this model where you get in touch beforehand and potentially you do the work or they do the work, or you partner together and do the work together, I don&#8217;t know what the model there is exactly, but the principle being that it&#8217;s much more of a symbiotic relationship. You&#8217;re in conversation about it. You both are sending out promotional materials once the thing has finally shipped, so it&#8217;s much more of a collaboration. It&#8217;s not as if you&#8217;re merging together. Your business is separate, their business is separate, but there&#8217;s definitely an overlap where you can help each other out.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:11:16] <strong>Dennis Dornon:</strong> Correct, yeah. Everything stays completely separate. It&#8217;s not a partnership in terms of a, you know, giving up any portion of your business. It&#8217;s more of a partnership of helping each other grow from your own base of customers. So if we go back to Atarim. Atarim promotes to their base of customers along with an actual, like I was saying, the code developed.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So they have something to hand them that they can come back and, MainWP, this is how it works with it, because we&#8217;ve actually built something together. I&#8217;m just not sending you an email blast telling you to go use MainWP. Here&#8217;s an email, here&#8217;s social, here&#8217;s how we&#8217;re working together to make your life easier. And that&#8217;s what we&#8217;re focused on going forward. Both co-development, co-marketing to work nice and smooth.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:11:52] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So in the last year, in this time where you&#8217;ve found several companies that you&#8217;ve decided to partner with as opposed to building it yourself. Just describe some of the benefits that you&#8217;ve discovered. You&#8217;ve mentioned things like marketing and what have you, but are there any other unexpected things?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>It might be just that, you know, it saved you a bunch of time. You ended up being friendly with people that you otherwise wouldn&#8217;t have encountered. Whichever way you want to take that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:12:17] <strong>Dennis Dornon:</strong> I&#8217;ve really learned, we&#8217;ve been doing this, MainWP itself for nine years, and I am just really started talking to people in the last year. And I think a lot of that comes from being in the partnerships and realizing that, when you get out there and you talk to people that they are friendly, most people are friendly.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Most people just want to work with you. They want to help. You gotta find who you want to work with, if they fit into what you want to do, if they fit into how you want to grow. But really we haven&#8217;t run into too much of people who didn&#8217;t align with what we are looking to do so far. But we are working on documents that we can put on our MainWP.dev site that allow people to see what&#8217;s expected from them, what&#8217;s expected from us in a partnership, so they know before they even contact us, hey, if we want to do a partnership, okay, we need to meet these things, do these things. So it&#8217;s all laid out for everybody.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:13:06] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah. That&#8217;s really interesting because, obviously a couple of years ago you didn&#8217;t really have anything to lean back on to say, this is how a partnership may work, and now that you&#8217;ve done it a couple of times, you&#8217;ve taken the step to even create documentation around that so that you can isolate yourself, I guess, from people coming to you and saying, we&#8217;d like to partner with you, and it&#8217;s simply not being a particularly good fit. There&#8217;s bound to be a whole raft of companies, there&#8217;s just really not enough overlap to work with.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yeah, I was wondering about that really. Are there any constraints that you&#8217;ve placed upon yourself to say, okay, if it&#8217;s out of this boundary, we probably won&#8217;t be able to work with you, or if it&#8217;s inside this boundary, we will.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:13:47] <strong>Dennis Dornon:</strong> It&#8217;s a hard one cause I haven&#8217;t come across anybody reaching out directly to me that I would be like, oh, I just can&#8217;t, just couldn&#8217;t work with you. There have been some things, where I know if somebody reached out that I didn&#8217;t feel comfortable putting in front of our user base, we&#8217;d be able to say no to. Something that wasn&#8217;t, um, don&#8217;t want to say privacy focused, but something that is completely against the way we feel about privacy.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Of course, we wouldn&#8217;t work with them. It&#8217;s a hard question to answer because it&#8217;s, until I&#8217;m actually presented with the situation, I&#8217;m not sure who I&#8217;d say no to, who I&#8217;d say yes to. I think everybody&#8217;s gotta be evaluated on their own individual basis.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:14:20] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> You obviously, when you are creating partnerships like this, you are staking quite a lot. You&#8217;re putting your flag in the sand that we would like to work with this company. Our business aligns with them, and if you start to email your list with logos from other companies and what have you, you are firmly saying, we align, we are trusted partners with each other.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so the word that I used there was trust. Now I imagine that we won&#8217;t get into the conversation of any times that trust may have been broken, but I do wonder what that level of trust means. How have you approached that whole subject of, can I trust this company?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You know, many people rely on their instinctive sense. Maybe there&#8217;s companies that you think if they approach me because I&#8217;ve seen what they do in the past, that isn&#8217;t a good fit for us. How do you establish trust and what does that trust actually mean?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:15:14] <strong>Dennis Dornon:</strong> Well, I can say this year we did have a partnership that I would not do again. Not naming any names. We had terms in and then they, uh, changed the terms once things had been launched, and that was kind of upsetting and I&#8217;m not sure what you can actually do for that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So you really do have to put some trust into it. And I think that&#8217;s where combining the co-development along with the co-marketing really makes a difference. This particular partner, we did all the work for the extension for, and they provided the service and then they changed the service after the extension was made.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So we&#8217;ve kind of moved away from doing where we do all the work in those situations. So we really go for the more of the co-development. Where the other person has the skin in the game, we know they&#8217;re also working for the same end goal we are. And then go into the co-marketing. And usually if you can get that skin in the game from the co-development, they&#8217;re not as, a person isn&#8217;t going to be as easy to do something, to break up that partnership or, make that partnership not profitable for both.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:16:09] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> When you say co-development, are you talking about, literally you&#8217;ll put people in the same room or on the same Zoom call or whatever. So in other words, MainWP developers are working with company A developers, and together you are building out the solution which bolts into MainWP. Or is it more, you are collaborating on ideas and then somebody goes off and builds this part and MainWP take care of their part? Just give us an idea of what that co-working looks like.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:16:37] <strong>Dennis Dornon:</strong> Yeah. and not to keep going back to Atarim, it&#8217;s just such a good example. In their case, they needed to develop a special API that we could connect to, and we needed to develop a way to connect to their API. So we were both working on APIs, to work with each other&#8217;s system. So we knew they were putting in the same amount of time or almost the same amount of time as we were into the extension. So we knew they were going to be just as dedicated to making sure that the product grew and got better.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:17:02] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So it&#8217;s very much a case of, you work out which ways you can scratch each other&#8217;s back, and share out the work accordingly. The hope being that the balance is equal, and it may be that at the beginning, if you&#8217;ve got the skill set to do the coding of a particular thing, then maybe that&#8217;s something that you would do, and maybe they don&#8217;t have the heavy lifting there. But they might have something else that they can contribute later in the journey. You know, marketing clout and so on and so forth.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:17:28] <strong>Dennis Dornon:</strong> One of the things I have noticed, actually Jonathan Wold in one of his blog posts mentions it, and it&#8217;s something I&#8217;ve noticed too, is when you&#8217;re the smaller partner, you usually end up doing most of the work. And for most of this time we have been the smaller partner. So that&#8217;s just one of the things. If you&#8217;re the new guy or you&#8217;re the smaller partner, just be prepared to have to do more than the other partner.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:17:47] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Do you go through this in a very formal way? In other words, you mentioned the Atarim example, obviously one you&#8217;re very happy talking about. There&#8217;s a lot of work to be done. There&#8217;s lots of hours to commit to writing the code. There must have been some sort of procedure that was gone through saying, okay, exactly what is the scope of the partnership that we&#8217;re doing here? Exactly what is the scope of what we&#8217;re trying to build on top of MainWP, which will interact with Atarim? Do you spend a long time hammering all that out and deciding, we can&#8217;t do this particular feature, but we&#8217;ll come to that later.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Because it&#8217;s not like you are selling a particular product at the end here where if the Atarim and MainWP partnership works out, it&#8217;s not like you can count the amount of units that you&#8217;ve sold of that partnership. It really isn&#8217;t like that, it&#8217;s just that you&#8217;ve made customers more happy. So there&#8217;s not revenue to be shared, but there is some benefit.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:18:37] <strong>Dennis Dornon:</strong> Yeah, I think if you boil everything down to profit, what fun is it going to be to actually run the business? So if it helps the user, the end user, then that&#8217;s really what we&#8217;re going to do. I think that&#8217;s shown throughout everything we do as a company, that we just really care about helping the end user.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Atarim&#8217;s a, just a good example. And the reason I keep coming back to that is because it is the one that taught me, if we go back to your earlier question to kind of calm down, and look at how to actually build the partnership. I keep saying I gotta give Vito credit for that, for, uh, teaching me that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Because before I would just get an email and if it looked like it worked from a standpoint of our users where I thought our users could really use something like this. I was all in I&#8217;d jump, we would go from there. It&#8217;d be a very quick process. I&#8217;m talking couple week turnaround time, from something that sounded really cool to actually getting it done, without any plan in place.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We were running headlong into the fire, because that&#8217;s all I knew at the time. I just wanted to get this new product out. Make sure it works for everybody, make sure our users are happy, and that was my end goal. When it comes to partnerships, I&#8217;m not really too much worried about how many dollars this particular partnership&#8217;s going to bring into me. More of how happy will this make our users and will it get our brand in front of other users to also make them happy. So as long as our markets somehow can be combined, I think that&#8217;s the best way to look at it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:19:52] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> It feels like this is a train you in your business could at least get onto. You found a couple of partners, you&#8217;ve worked very happily with them, and you might move on to the next partner and the next partner, and the next partner and so on. I&#8217;m just wondering if that is now the intention for MainWP, you&#8217;ve enjoyed this experience. Is the plan to find new partners and see if there&#8217;s interesting ways that you can swell what your product does by partnering with other people? Or do you intend to have just a few close partners?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Because that can be a nice model to work through as well. You&#8217;ve got five or six people that you work with very closely. You don&#8217;t have to dilute the work that you&#8217;ve got and try to maintain 50, 60, a hundred different extensions to MainWP, which may lead to, well, difficulty keeping them up to date as things change within their businesses and your business.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:20:39] <strong>Dennis Dornon:</strong> Yeah, we actually are working on a dual model, if you will, of that. We have our extensions that we will build out, such as Atarim, which works through APIs. But we&#8217;re kind of moving away from building plugin based extensions like we had before, and we&#8217;re moving those more to also third parties.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>For example, the SEOPress extension, that was built completely by the SEOPress team. We did help with any development that they needed, but we didn&#8217;t get our hands too dirty in that. And then we worked with promoting them out. And same with the WPvivid backup people. They made their own extensions using our API and our code base, and they&#8217;re just putting those out themselves.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We&#8217;re real happy with those. And we actually started doing more to help out those third party .org, I would call them, partnerships that kind of came across naturally. Like the WPvivid, I don&#8217;t believe they had much discussion with us at all. They kind of did the partnership the way we used to, where we launched the product and then sent over an email saying that, hey, we got a extension here, we made for you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:21:38] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So do you wish to reach out and find new audiences? Different plugins and different, well, whatever it may be, different services that are out there. Is that the intention in the next one, two years, to find other partners to work with? Or is it very much case by case basis? We&#8217;ll do one at a time. We&#8217;ll take it nice and easy and slow. Or are you racing to get as many as you can?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:22:00] <strong>Dennis Dornon:</strong> We&#8217;re a small team of only seven people. So we can only do, so many and we have to maintain our own. That&#8217;s what I was saying earlier, we&#8217;re really becoming more API focused when it comes to our internal extensions, because they&#8217;re easier for us to maintain as we&#8217;re crossing over into the 40 extensions that we have ourselves.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Which is why we&#8217;re having the plugin users, or the plugin extensions are starting to be made by the actual plugin company, because they&#8217;re better at keeping those updated on their own, and it kind of takes a little bit off our plate. And then we&#8217;re able to still help co-market them. We&#8217;ve started adding into our actual plugin to make it easier for you to find these new .org partnerships that are coming around.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But really what I&#8217;m striving for is, like you said, a platform base, similar to WooCommerce. We actually just kind of got lucky in this, because when we started back in 2015 with that first backup extension, it wasn&#8217;t to get along the path of WooCommerce and try and build a platform. It was, we&#8217;re a small, bootstrap company. I think we only had, uh, three people, or four people at the time. And backups were just killing our support and development time. We couldn&#8217;t come up with, didn&#8217;t have time to do anything new and exciting. We were just stuck on backup, month after month after month.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And that&#8217;s when we decided start making these backup extensions that work with the plugins that were built by people who knew backups. So, we were able to offload that work to people who actually knew how to do it, just by connecting their plugin with our plugin.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:23:27] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> It feels like you have a business which is really, really wide open to partnerships. And what I mean by that, and it may be difficult for me to describe. You have essentially a platform. You have an architecture, which means that things can be built right on top, so that they can update their own website.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, you could help SEO companies. You could help image compression companies. You could help form companies. They&#8217;re all part of the WordPress website ecosystem. So, there&#8217;ll be a lot of companies out there who maybe are thinking, well, yeah, but we&#8217;ve got this one plugin in it just does this one thing. I can&#8217;t see of a way to be partnering with other people. Have you got any advice to give to those people?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:24:10] <strong>Dennis Dornon:</strong> Looking at it from my point of view, as the potential platform that you would build on. If you have a plugin, say a form plugin, something that can be used in multiple places. So you can have your setting set. If you&#8217;re usually like the same settings all the time, you can do that from a dashboard such as ours. Or if you want to get all your forms returned from one place, so you have 50 sites, but you want to see all the forms in one place. You could think of it like that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:24:37] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, it&#8217;s more that you have a platform which enables you to partner with more or less anybody it feels like in the WordPress space. So that&#8217;s a good bit of serendipity. You&#8217;ve got this system which you&#8217;ve built over years. But a lot of people will be thinking, I can&#8217;t partner with other people, I&#8217;ve got this one plugin, which just does one thing. And it may be that partnerships are out of scope for them, and I guess that is just a reality.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:24:58] <strong>Dennis Dornon:</strong> In that case, you probably would just be stuck with the co-marketing form, and then you would have to find somebody whose market aligns with yours that is willing to actually do a mailing for you. So yeah, that might be a tough one if it&#8217;s just a very basic plugin.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:25:11] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah. The other thing about partnerships, I suppose, is that you are very much aligning yourself with a particular company. So let&#8217;s imagine that in the WordPress space there are four companies, company A, B, C, and D, and they basically do the same thing. We can imagine who these companies might be and how they are competitive rivals in the marketplace.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>There&#8217;s something there isn&#8217;t there. And what I mean by that is if you decide to partner with one of those and send out emails and you are lording how fabulous product B is. Do you have any fears that you have then cut yourself off from A, C and D? And that they won&#8217;t wish to speak to you because now, well, you know, it&#8217;s pretty clear from the stuff that they&#8217;re marketing over the last year that they&#8217;ve made their decision and we are not a part of that. Is that something that concerns you?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:26:02] <strong>Dennis Dornon:</strong> I wouldn&#8217;t say. So if we just take a look at our backup extension situation. As I mentioned, WPvivid put out their own. And then of course we have some built in house and one of the ones we built in house actually comes from one of our competitors who also put up a backup solution.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And we just deploy gratitude. Work with them and do your best. The fact they came to us, a competitor comes to us and asks for help with their promoting their backup extension. That just makes me feel good. I don&#8217;t think of it as a competitive atmosphere in that way.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Just more of, hey, even though they&#8217;re a competitor, they&#8217;re not a competitor with this particular product, and this product will help our users. So yeah, that sounds like a, sounds like a good partnership to us.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:26:41] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Do you have any interesting input? We&#8217;re in the middle of November and this is 2022. This podcast episode will air within several weeks of this being recorded. And so with that caveat in mind, is there anything exciting that you have in the pipeline for MainWP users? It may be that the answer to that is no, Nathan, I don&#8217;t. But it may be that the answer is actually, we&#8217;ve got a couple of interesting things that we&#8217;re working on at the moment.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:27:08] <strong>Dennis Dornon:</strong> We have a few interesting things. Um, I&#8217;m not sure which ones I can really talk about depending on when this comes out, so I&#8217;m going to have to keep pretty quiet on that. But, we got an interesting partnership coming up that I&#8217;m very excited about that should be out hopefully by January as long as everything goes smooth and determined by their marketing schedule. And then we also have some core updates, which are going to be pretty exciting.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:27:32] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So this is a product that you&#8217;re working on. You are actively working on it. Is this the only thing that you are doing, or do you, Dennis have other fingers in other WordPress pies?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:27:43] <strong>Dennis Dornon:</strong> I strictly focus on MainWP. I like to stay with what I know. Remember we built this for our own use, and it&#8217;s grown from there. This is really kind of my baby. I&#8217;ve looked at other things, but just nothing&#8217;s ever really, you know, really caught my eye. When I wake up in the morning this is, I want to see how we can make MainWP better. I want to see what&#8217;s going on? I still check almost every support ticket, so I have a finger on the pulse of what&#8217;s happening. I may not be the one replying, but I&#8217;m still reviewing almost every support ticket, every forum post every Facebook post, just to really keep my finger on what&#8217;s happening in MainWP. And I figure if I, if I&#8217;m doing three or four other plugins, nothing&#8217;s going to be focused on for the end user.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:28:29] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> It sounds from what you&#8217;ve said, and I could be misrepresenting this, it sounds like when you began, you were very much walking in the dark. You didn&#8217;t really know how the plugin would develop, how the business would develop. And it feels like you&#8217;ve really found your feet in the last few years, you&#8217;ve had some success.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Obviously the plugin is selling to the point where you can swell the team to seven as opposed to whatever it was, one, two, or three in the olden days. And it&#8217;s a general question, but I, I do like these questions, the warm and fuzzy question. Are you still happy in the WordPress space. Is this a community that you enjoy being a part of? Are you still enjoying doing the work that you do?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:29:07] <strong>Dennis Dornon:</strong> I would say I enjoy it more now than I did before. I am a private person. So I don&#8217;t like talking. I don&#8217;t like doing podcasts that much, or videos. But I&#8217;m trying to get better at it. And as I&#8217;m doing it, actually enjoying being in the WordPress community more and more. Just being out there instead of, we&#8217;re going on nine years in February, so for eight years, I basically hid behind this computer screen and didn&#8217;t talk to anybody except through email and chat, to actually be out talking to people and, interacting with people in a more personable way has really just made it much more fun for me than it was even in the beginning. And it just grows every day. I wake up wanting to come in. I go to bed wanting to come in. It doesn&#8217;t feel like work any day that I&#8217;m here.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:29:53] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Has WordPress itself changed in any way, which has affected your business strategy? Because a lot of companies, you know, if you&#8217;re a theme company at the moment, there must be a lot of introspection. Okay, where&#8217;s WordPress going with all of this? If you were a plugin which is now being overlapped by blocks, that must be an awful lot of anxiety about, okay, where do we need to go with this? We&#8217;re not quite sure how this is going to all settle down.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>It feels like your business inside of WordPress was really insulated from the changes that we&#8217;ve had since WordPress, well let&#8217;s say WordPress five with Gutenberg and everything. Or has there been a lot that you&#8217;ve had to refactor in the background to continue to make it working?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:30:29] <strong>Dennis Dornon:</strong> We&#8217;ve definitely made a shift from where we originally were. If you look at MainWP, in the beginning we were really affiliate focused. I mean, that&#8217;s what we came from. Everything was set for affiliates and to grow affiliates and to make sure, you know, you could be a profitable affiliate. As years have gone by, I would say now we&#8217;re much more agency or creator focused than we are affiliate focused.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Not that affiliates can&#8217;t find a way to use MainWP. It&#8217;s still going to work great for them, but it&#8217;s not our focus. As you see new extensions come out, they&#8217;re not something doing like a spinner syntax or something like you might have done 9, 10 years ago. Now it&#8217;s focused on different APIs, Atarim, SEOPress, things like that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:31:08] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So, Dennis, you are sticking around in the WordPress space. If we come back in five or six or seven years time, we fully expect to have MainWP still available for us?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:31:19] <strong>Dennis Dornon:</strong> Yeah. And that, that&#8217;s one of the, the great things too about being open source. I&#8217;ve said this from the beginning. If something happens to us, you still have everything. If MainWP as a company goes away, you still have MainWP. Your service is still going to work. It&#8217;s a plugin that doesn&#8217;t need MainWP the website to keep going.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>It&#8217;s going to keep going for you. So you don&#8217;t have to worry about us disappearing because the code is live, out there, anybody can pick it up if something did happen and we disappeared. Which of course, I hope we don&#8217;t, but it&#8217;s there available to people.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:31:51] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Is there a sweet spot that you feel, MainWP is now worth it? And what I mean by that is, obviously if you have one WordPress website, I can imagine the argument for getting into the MainWP platform is probably not that strong. You know, it&#8217;s fairly easy to log into your website and do all of the things that you need to do. But once you&#8217;ve got two or three, or four, or five or fifty or a hundred, the numbers begin to swell.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I just wonder if you had any thoughts on that. You&#8217;ve obviously got a target market. I know that you don&#8217;t gather much data about them, so maybe you don&#8217;t have a great deal to say in terms of the metrics there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:32:27] <strong>Dennis Dornon:</strong> it&#8217;s hard to say on who has what. I know we have different users. I would say probably four or five is where it starts to get a little time consuming, and at least the free core, which gives you most of what you&#8217;re going to need for that level would be a great place to start. Our average user based on the.org statistics, show that we average about 60 child sites per dashboards. So, dot org is saying we have 10,000 active dashboards out there with 600,000 active child sites. So I would say the jumping endpoint should be much closer to five than 60, but the average user has 60.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:33:02] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Always surprises me how there&#8217;s a tool for just about everything in the WordPress space, and much of it is open source. There&#8217;s a lot of SaaS platforms which do what you do, but it is nice to have an option that you can put on your own dedicated website.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Do give us a little bit of intel, because I imagine quite a few people in the audience are interested in the privacy part. You spoke to me just before we hit record about the lack of data that you can bring to bear. And on the one hand, that might be frustrating for you, but on the other hand, it might be incredibly nice for listeners to the podcast to know how much data you collect, or quite the opposite, how much data you don&#8217;t collect.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:33:40] <strong>Dennis Dornon:</strong> We really don&#8217;t collect anything. If you look on MainWP.com, if I can send people there, and you&#8217;ll notice at very top of the page we&#8217;re one of the only plugins that I know of that has their own private plugin policy. And that was actually a written by Donata Stroink-Skillrud of Agency Attorneys. And that&#8217;s a privacy policy for your plugins telling you exactly what information we&#8217;re gathering or in our case not gathering. We really don&#8217;t record anything of any personal nature.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:34:10] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> And in terms of the support that you offer, a platform like this will become quickly part of the backbone of your business. You know, it may be that you log in once a day and update sites and you want to know that that&#8217;s possible and you want to know that should there be any problems, you can reach out to MainWP and get those problems fixed quickly. How do you handle support? Is it email? Have you got chats? Are you 24 7? Are you throughout the globe? How does that work?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:34:36] <strong>Dennis Dornon:</strong> We have multiple people throughout the globe. We&#8217;re not 24 7. We are basically eastern standard time, 7:00 AM to about 4:00 PM. We have support both in a support forum at managers dot MainWP, and people can send in tickets. One of the things I&#8217;m proud of, we don&#8217;t charge for support. So if you&#8217;re a free user, or a pro-level user, we&#8217;re providing the same support for both levels.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So nobody&#8217;s ostracized to just forum support or just this or just that. Somebody can send in a ticket or they can go to the forum or they can post on wordpress.org. We&#8217;re going to answer you however we can in any way we can. And support has been very strong from the beginning for us. We want to make sure everybody can get the answers that they need when they need it. Always keeping an updated knowledge base for users so they don&#8217;t have to ask because you know, who really wants to put in a ticket when you can just look at the knowledge base to find the answer. So we try and keep that as up to date as possible.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:35:31] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> You mentioned before that you are just getting into the idea of making public appearances, so podcasts and videos that you&#8217;re making and so on. So this question may fall on deaf ears for you. But ,do you encourage people to reach out to you? Do you have any social platforms? Do you have an email address that you&#8217;d like to share? The answer to that can be no. But, uh, if do and you do like chatting to people on email and giving them into some intel into what it is that you&#8217;ve been working on, will be working on, you could share that now.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:36:01] <strong>Dennis Dornon:</strong> Really, if you want to reach out to me, just go to dennisdornon.com. That&#8217;s my full name dot com. And it has a calendar on there. And I, I just put this site really updated last month with a calendar on there. Just got my calendly. Started have to actually uh, mark things on a calendar because they&#8217;re happening so fast lately.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You can hop in over there and I&#8217;ll be glad to chat over Zoom with whoever wants to chat with over Zoom. Going to actually try and start to do a little more AMAs. It sounds like people in the community want to do that too. So you&#8217;ll have chances to reach out to me live on different ask me anything type videos.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:36:31] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Dennis Dornon and thank you for chatting to me on the podcast today. I really appreciate it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:36:36] <strong>Dennis Dornon:</strong> Glad to be here. Thank you very much.</p>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<p>On the podcast today, we have <a href=\"https://twitter.com/dennisdornon\">Dennis Dornon</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Dennis is the founder of <a href=\"https://mainwp.com/\">MainWP.</a> A WordPress plugin which enables you to manage multiple WordPress websites from a single dashboard. As you&#8217;ll hear, the business has changed over the years, as Dennis has learned more about the plugins&#8217; target audience.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;re a solo developer, or a working for a small team, bringing your WordPress product into the market can be very rewarding, but it can also be hard. Given the scale of the market, it&#8217;s likely that your product has got an audience, but with the time and resources being limited, it might be hard to break through and be widely discovered.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Dennis talks today about how, in the recent past, he&#8217;s been trying out working with partners as an effective way to increase the plugins reach. As you&#8217;ll hear, it&#8217;s a strategy that he&#8217;s enamored with, given the right partner.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We start off by talking about why Dennis built MainWP, and who the plugin was originally aimed at. And it&#8217;s not what you might expect.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We then get into how Dennis is working out his partnerships as he goes. What is it he&#8217;s looking for in a partner? Not all companies in the WordPress space are going to be a good fit. And so he explains how it&#8217;s important that all partners have some skin in the game, and know what part of the deal they have to uphold. What are the things that need to be considered before the partnership begins? And how do you make sure that all the parties are keeping up their end of the bargain?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>It turns out that MainWP is a business which is in just about the perfect spot for bringing on partners. But if you&#8217;re a developer and have not considered this type of approach with your business, this podcast is for you.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Useful links.</h2>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://mainwp.com/\">MainWP website</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://jonathanwold.com/partnerships-in-portugal/\">Partnerships in Portugal</a> by Jonathan Wold</p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://mainwp.com/seopress-partnership/\">Introducing “SEOPress for MainWP” Extension</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://mainwp.com/atarim-partnership/\">Introducing Atarim Inside MainWP &amp; Vice Versa</a></p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 14 Dec 2022 15:20:08 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14:\"Nathan Wrigley\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:43;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:71:\"Do The Woo Community: Acquisitions Are Not a Goal of Building a Product\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://dothewoo.io/?p=73869\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:66:\"https://dothewoo.io/acquisitions-not-a-goal-of-building-a-product/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:414:\"<p>There are paths to choose from and other considerations when preparing your WooCommerce product business for acquisition. </p>\n<p>&gt;&gt; The post <a rel=\"nofollow\" href=\"https://dothewoo.io/acquisitions-not-a-goal-of-building-a-product/\">Acquisitions Are Not a Goal of Building a Product</a> appeared first on <a rel=\"nofollow\" href=\"https://dothewoo.io\">Do the Woo - a WooCommerce Builder Community</a>	.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 14 Dec 2022 12:30:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:44;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:89:\"Do The Woo Community: Building an Agency Team and Culture for Success with Marius Vetrici\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://dothewoo.io/?p=74026\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:68:\"https://dothewoo.io/building-an-agency-team-and-culture-for-success/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:431:\"<p>Marius Vetrici from WPRiders shares his insights into running an agency and building a WooCommerce subscription plugin.</p>\n<p>&gt;&gt; The post <a rel=\"nofollow\" href=\"https://dothewoo.io/building-an-agency-team-and-culture-for-success/\">Building an Agency Team and Culture for Success with Marius Vetrici</a> appeared first on <a rel=\"nofollow\" href=\"https://dothewoo.io\">Do the Woo - a WooCommerce Builder Community</a>	.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 13 Dec 2022 10:49:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:45;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:76:\"WPTavern: Mailchimp for WordPress Plugin for Sale in the Ballpark of €1.6M\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:30:\"https://wptavern.com/?p=140295\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:85:\"https://wptavern.com/mailchimp-for-wordpress-plugin-for-sale-in-the-ballpark-of-e1-6m\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:3896:\"<p><a href=\"https://www.dannyvankooten.com/\">Danny van Kooten</a>, creator of the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/mailchimp-for-wp/\">Mailchimp for WordPress</a> plugin, has indicated that he is interested in selling his plugin for somewhere in the ballpark of €1.6M. It is the most popular Mailchimp solution for WordPress, although it is &#8220;unofficial&#8221; in that it is not developed by or affiliated with Mailchimp in any way. It has more than 2 million active installs and has been downloaded more than 42 million times.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>In a <a href=\"https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33931627\">comment</a> on a popular Hacker News post that asks, &#8220;<a href=\"https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33923137\">What is the best income stream you have created till date?</a>&#8221; van Kooten dropped the hint that he is willing to sell the nearly ten-year-old plugin: </p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote\">\n<p>It’s definitely not my passion but in 2013 I built a WordPress plugin around the API of a popular newsletter service and it’s been paying my bills ever since.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Still going strong at €36K per month excluding VAT.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>There was (and still is) a huge market where non-technical people are looking for a GUI around something a programmer would find very simple (and usually too boring to work on). More so if the tech surrounding it is not particularly sexy, as is the case for WordPress and PHP.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ps. In case anyone is reading this, I am open to selling. I spent about 4 hours a week on it and the rest is handled by 2 freelance people costing about €1K / month each. Contact me for details if interested and willing to pay in the ballpark of €1.6M.</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p>van Kooten developed Mailchimp for WordPress when he was hospitalized in Vietnam due to acute appendicitis with extra time on his hands during his recovery. He identifies himself as an &#8220;accidental entrepreneur&#8221; in his Hacker News bio. In 2021, he was <a href=\"https://www.wired.com/story/sustainable-software-design-climate-change/\">featured in Wired</a> for his efforts in reducing his carbon output as a plugin developer. He refactored the plugin to send 20kb less data, and, due to its large user base, he estimates these changes reduced  the world&#8217;s monthly CO<sub>2</sub> output by 59,000 kilograms, which Wired estimated is &#8220;roughly the equivalent to flying from New York to Amsterdam and back 85 times.&#8221;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Mailchimp for WordPress has commercial upgrades ranging from $59 &#8211;  $149 per year, and 1% of the plugin&#8217;s revenue goes towards environmental projects.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Although Mailchimp recommends WordPress.com&#8217;s &#8220;<a href=\"https://mailchimp.com/integrations/wordpress/\">Mailchimp block</a>&#8221; as the official WordPress integration (also available in Jetpack 7.1+), van Kooten&#8217;s plugin is far more flexible. Mailchimp for WordPress integrates with other popular plugins like WooCommerce, Contact Form 7, Gravity Forms, Ninja Forms 3, BuddyPress, MemberPress, and Events Manager, allowing visitors to subscribe via the checkout or comments form.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Several commenters on van Kooten&#8217;s Hacker News response indicated interest in his offer for sale. His comment offers a a rare, transparent look into a popular plugin&#8217;s revenue and potential sale price, as most companies that acquire WordPress plugins are almost never willing to reveal how much they paid for them. As Substack moves to <a href=\"https://twitter.com/cjgbest/status/1602370307884318720\">add compatibility for Ghost themes</a> and other third-parties, and newsletters become even more critical with people leaving Twitter, it will be interesting to see more movement in the newsletter support space. van Kooten may be setting out at just the right time to find a buyer for Mailchimp for WordPress.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 13 Dec 2022 04:30:16 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"Sarah Gooding\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:46;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:115:\"WPTavern: Gutenberg 14.7 Introduces Color Coding for Template Parts and Reusable Blocks, Adds Media Tab to Inserter\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:30:\"https://wptavern.com/?p=140270\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:125:\"https://wptavern.com/gutenberg-14-7-introduces-color-coding-for-template-parts-and-reusable-blocks-adds-media-tab-to-inserter\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:2734:\"<p>Sometimes Gutenberg introduces features that you never knew you needed. Such is the case with the new color coding system in the Site Editor. The latest <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2022/12/09/whats-new-in-gutenberg-14-7-7-december/\">14.7 release</a> adds color to template parts and reusable blocks in the list view, block toolbar, and block selection outlines. The colorization is intended to help users differentiate between the different block types as they edit their designs.</p>\n\n\n\nvideo source: <a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/issues/32163\">Gutenberg PR #32163</a>\n\n\n\n<p>Another UI enhancement in version 14.7 is a new, experimental split control for block settings. It splits the block inspector sidebar to separate the settings controls from the appearance controls, giving the appearance side the same half-moon icon used for styles in the Site Editor. The intention is to make it easier to manage blocks with many controls, such as Group or Navigation blocks, that would end up having the settings scrolling down the page. </p>\n\n\n\n<img />image source: <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2022/12/09/whats-new-in-gutenberg-14-7-7-december/\">Gutenberg 14.7 release post</a>\n\n\n\n<p>The split control enhancement isn&#8217;t set in stone yet, as it must be enabled as an experimental feature in the Gutenberg > Experiments admin menu. It seems helpful but could prove to be more confusing for users, so further testing is needed before it moves out of experiments. </p>\n\n\n\n<img />\n\n\n\n<p>The inserter is getting a major change in 14.7 with the addition of a Media tab, making it faster to add images, video, and audio. Users can select the new tab and select a media type to see the ten most recent items. There&#8217;s also an &#8220;Open Media Library&#8221; button at the bottom of the panel.</p>\n\n\n\n<img />\n\n\n\n<p>Other notable updates in 14.7 include the following: </p>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li>Page List block can now expand inside the List View to see the hierarchy of pages (<a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/pull/45776\">45776</a>)</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Layout controls added to children of flex layout blocks (width for row and height for stack are now available for child Row and Stack blocks) (<a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/pull/45364\">45364</a>)</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Significant load time performance improvements from caching the results of querying settings from theme.json. (<a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/pull/45372\">45372</a>)</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>Check out the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2022/12/09/whats-new-in-gutenberg-14-7-7-december/\">changelog</a> to get a more detailed look at the dozens of improvements and bug fixes included in 14.7.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 13 Dec 2022 03:17:06 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"Sarah Gooding\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:47;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:127:\"Gutenberg Times: Gutenberg Changelog #77 – Gutenberg 14.7, what’s new for Block Themes, an upcoming Live Q&amp;A in January\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:53:\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/?post_type=podcast&p=22971\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:131:\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/gutenberg-changelog-77-gutenberg-14-7-whats-new-for-block-themes-an-upcoming-live-qa-in-january/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:45870:\"<p>Daisy Olsen and Birgit Pauli-Haack discuss Gutenberg 14.7, what’s new for Block Themes, an upcoming Live Q&amp;A in January and much more.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/gutenberg-changelog-69-gutenberg-releases-wordpress-6-0-1-the-create-block-theme/#shownotes\">Show Notes</a> / <a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/gutenberg-changelog-69-gutenberg-releases-wordpress-6-0-1-the-create-block-theme/#transcript\">Transcript</a></p>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li>Music:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://soundcloud.com/xirclebox\">Homer Gaines</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Editor:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://www.linkedin.com/in/sandy-reed/\">Sandy Reed</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Logo:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://markuraine.com/\">Mark Uraine</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Production:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://icodeforapurpose.com\">Birgit Pauli-Haack</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-larger-font-size\" id=\"shownotes\"><strong>Show Notes</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<h3>Announcements</h3>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/support/2022/12/introducing-the-block-editor-in-the-support-forums/\">Introducing the Block Editor in the Support Forums</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2022/12/07/leveraging-theme-json-and-per-block-styles-for-more-performant-themes/\">Leveraging theme.json and per-block styles for more performant themes</a> by Justin Tadlock</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/themes/oaknut/\">Oaknut</a> by Anders Noren</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://wptavern.com/anders-noren-releases-oaknut-a-new-profile-block-theme-with-23-style-variations\">Anders Norén Releases Oaknut, a New Profile Block Theme with 23 Style Variations</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2022/11/29/a-php-developers-guide-to-getting-started-with-block-development/\">A PHP developer’s guide to getting started with block development</a> by Michael Burridge</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/course/a-developers-guide-to-block-themes-part-1/\">Developers Guide to Block Themes (Part 1)</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/course/a-developers-guide-to-block-themes-part-2/\">Developers Guide to Block Themes (Part 2)</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h3>Community Contributions</h3>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/lang-attribute/\">Lang Attribute for the Block Editor</a>  </li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/abbreviation-button-for-the-block-editor/\">Abbreviation Button for the Block Editor</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h3>What&#8217;s released</h3>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2022/12/09/whats-new-in-gutenberg-14-7-7-december/\">What’s new in Gutenberg 14.7? (7 December)</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpress.github.io/gutenberg/?path=/docs/docs-introduction--page\">Storybook</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h3>What&#8217;s worked on</h3>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://github.com/wordpress/gutenberg/issues/45371\">Global Styles: Allow saving, importing, exporting, copying from another theme without switching to it</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://github.com/wordpress/gutenberg/issues/29577\">FSE: Create more robust autosaving including UI&nbsp;</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/design/2022/12/05/design-share-nov-21-dec-2/\">Design Share: Nov 21–Dec 2</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-large-font-size\">Stay in Touch</p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-layout-flow\"><div class=\"wp-block-group__inner-container\">\n<ul>\n<li>Did you like this episode? <a href=\"https://lovethepodcast.com/gutenbergchangelog\"><strong>Please write us a review </strong></a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Ping us on Twitter or send DMs with questions. <a href=\"https://twitter.com/gutenbergtimes\">@gutenbergtimes </a>and <a href=\"https://twitter.com/bph\">@bph</a>.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><em>If you have questions or suggestions, or news you want us to include, send them to <a href=\"mailto:changelog@gutenbergtimes.com\">changelog@gutenbergtimes.com</a>. </em></li>\n\n\n\n<li><em>Please write us a review on iTunes! <a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/itunes/\">(Click here to learn how)</a></em></li>\n</ul>\n</div></div>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-large-font-size\" id=\"transcript\"><strong>Transcrip</strong>t</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: Hello </p>\n\n\n\n<p>and welcome to our 77th episode of the Gutenberg Changelog Podcast. In today&#8217;s episode, we will talk about Gutenberg 14.7, what&#8217;s next for Block Themes and an upcoming Live Q&amp;A in January and so much more. My name is Birgit Pauli-Haack, curator at the Gutenberg Times and WordPress developer advocate and core contributor on the WordPress Open-Source Project. Today we are recording the last show of 2022, and we are all in for a special treat. I&#8217;m thrilled to welcome Daisy Olsen to the show, a master educator on Block Themes, fellow developer advocate, and first-time release lead of the latest Gutenberg plugin release 14.7. Good morning, Daisy. Thank you for making the time and join me on the show. How are you?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Daisy Olsen</em>: I&#8217;m doing really well. Thanks so much for having me today.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: You&#8217;re so welcome. It&#8217;s a special pleasure for me. So, for the last year, you have been working on various educational material around the Block Themes. Your workshop at Word Camp Europe was standing room only. And then you gave an updated version three months later on Word Camp US. You also worked with a training team on online workshops. If someone knows about Block Theme, it&#8217;s you. So, what are some of the most asked questions you hear from participants about Block Themes, or what are they&#8217;re most struggling with when building Block Themes?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Daisy Olsen</em>: So, I think that people come from a lot of different places in their development career or path. I&#8217;m not sure if I have any specific most asked questions at the top of my mind. But I do think that the move to more low-code or even no-code options for creating themes is a paradigm shift and it&#8217;s going to take some time for everyone to get used to it. Given how quickly the number of block themes has increased, I heard like 250 or more potentially in the theme directory there&#8217;s certainly some energy building. I would say that one thing that I&#8217;ve heard in general is that there&#8217;s sometimes some worry around how existing theme functionality will work as we move towards a block theme first ideal. And the short answer is that the old waste will still work. We&#8217;re not replacing the PHP-based theme engine. We&#8217;re expanding on it and making it much easier for developers, and users alike to participate in the theme creation process. But change can be hard, and this is a process that will happen over time.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: Well, thank you for that. What I see that it&#8217;s also what the last bit, that it&#8217;s actually not a replacement, it&#8217;s actually an expansion of the existing theme hierarchy framework is a little hard to hear overall. This is the new things doing things what happens with the old and I think that&#8217;s part of the problem that we have, and we are all working on it. And I know that Matias also said that, there&#8217;s nothing&#8217;s going to go away or get obsolete. It&#8217;s just that the user no code, creating a theme with the site editor is actually kind of expanding the user base of it and not shrinking it. And if the pie gets bigger, I think we all really profit from that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Daisy Olsen</em>: I would just add that as we think about the way that WordPress themes are created as an expansion. It will open up the opportunity for people to come in with a different skill set that maybe would not have been able to create theming in the WordPress, they mentioned the way that it has existed. And one of my very favorite things about WordPress theming is that you can take a theme created for version 1.2 and install it today and it&#8217;ll still work. You can&#8217;t go the other direction because new features have been at a new functionality. But you can take something as old as so many years ago and still basically use it today. I don&#8217;t know that anybody is going to do that necessarily. But the fact that backwards compatibility is such a big part of the culture of WordPress is a huge comfort if you&#8217;re thinking about the future.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: Totally and that&#8217;s also what made WordPress so big is almost a 20-year backwards compatibility. And I&#8217;m really amazed, and every release party that I participate on beta releases or release candidate releases when we upgrade 4.0 something themes to the new theme, the upgrade is just seamless. Everybody who worked on the core releases has made sure that older versions upgrade to the new versions and the same happens with the classic themes that the workers will always work for classic themes. It&#8217;s not, sometimes things change, but it&#8217;s also, there&#8217;s a lot of effort also in the developer. Good work developer could not develop, a community where the effort is to make part of the block theme features available for classic themes. An example was that all the block-based template parts that can be used for classic themes, and they had that came with 6.1. Do you have seen a lot of adoption of those or what people are doing with them?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Daisy Olsen</em>: We have more to do to encourage people to adopt those gradual adoption pathways, but the fact that they exist is really a great thing that we&#8217;re not expecting. The project is not expecting people to go in headfirst and change everything that they know and all of their workflows and everything. But there are ways that you can take legacy code because the truth is that not every client is going to be ready for a full redesign and some never are. But the pathways that we have to take legacy code and expand it to adopt some of these new features is really powerful.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: It&#8217;s not a really good business case to make to say, &#8220;Okay, now I start using the new thing for new client project.&#8221; Unless when you have a tested and proven workflow to get new clients online very easily for the last six or seven years, you are not going to change your workflow as the same available or agency freelancer to change that from today, from tomorrow. So, it definitely takes some time to adjust to that. We have seen this with other new features in WordPress they take about two to three years. All right. But I digress or we digress a little bit, but I think we always kind of need to talk out about a few things.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<h3><strong>Announcements</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>But we are ready for our announcements. And as I mentioned in the intro, we have a great good work time live Q&amp;A planned. It&#8217;s in preparation for working with Asia. The title is layouts, layouts, layouts, and Layouts of fundamental part of how Block Themes work. And it allows you to define the width of your post content, arrange the blocks horizontally, as well as vertically. And left or right aligned and inside container blocks. And in terms of block styling, layout is a complex feature because it affects not only the container but also the child blocks in ways that go beyond the cascading style sheets inheritance.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>In the show, we will have Isabel Bryson, Andrew Serong, Justin Tadlock, and we will discuss the opportunities and challenges for this layout feature and for site builders. Both or all three of them, and I&#8217;m two but only minimally available for your questions to answer them. And Isabel Bryson will also give us a little demo of the various layout scenarios, which is kind of flex and fluid and constrained. And there&#8217;s certainly some more development being done in the few, in the couple of weeks that are until we have that, it&#8217;s going to happen on January 11 at 5:00 p.m. Eastern. That&#8217;s 10:00 UTC, 2200 UTC. And it&#8217;s a little bit of a different timeframe than other because Isabel and Andrew are in Australia. So, we have a little Pacific, an Asia Pacific kind of timeframe there. And Isabel is also a speaker at Word Camp Asia, so it&#8217;s going to be a great show.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Daisy Olsen</em>: All right. Sounds great. Another thing that has come up recently is that the WordPress support forums are now including, rather than the WYSIWYG formatter or text format block. We have the embedded block editor. So, we&#8217;re going to see the ability to add blocks and support forms. So, it&#8217;s going to be interesting to see how that is received for by the user base and if it helps to move the support questions forward in a way. But anytime we see the Gutenberg project, the block editor as we know it outside of WordPress. Outside of the WordPress administrative area, it&#8217;s really neat because it shows how the power of this contained thing that can be dropped into another environment and used in a different way, so&#8230;</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: We have in the show notes where we have the post from Alvaro Gameiro, I&#8217;m just checking the name, Alvaro Gomez. I had all letters write, and right now it&#8217;s in testing, but it won&#8217;t be in testing for long, so if you follow the post, there&#8217;s also a link for the test site, so you can try it out and see how you feel about it and also share your feedback on the make blog support post in the comments. We also have new posts on the new developer block. So, for five years I have now the trouble that is block and blog with the pronunciation so that the new developer blog is two new articles: One is Leveraging theme.json and the Per-Block Styles for More Performance Themes by Justin Tadlock.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And he outlines how using the theme.json two style, all your elements, the blocks, the individual blocks, as well as some of the elements centrally through the theme.Json file saves you quite a bit on CSS file length. And also code I&#8217;m a fan of Anders Noren themes and he has done some great work on the block themes and he just released his theme Oaknut, which gives you a kind of link tree way to create your page and has, he says a really small CSS file, and it comes in less than 150 lines and 120 of those are lines for the custom block styles that he includes in the theme.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, he does not style the main thing and all the other styles that come with WordPress theme classic theme. So, I think that&#8217;s also another reason to maybe use the theme.json funnel for classic themes, which is possible. Any comments on that, Daisy?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Daisy Olsen</em>: Just that it&#8217;s exciting to see that our CSS starts to get smaller and by moving things into theme.json we are paving the pathway to make more performant sites because we&#8217;ll be able to build up more tooling to only use the CSS in line when we need it. And that hasn&#8217;t always been the case. So, trying to keep things small and concise where possible is going to take things a long way. So, I think we&#8217;ll see a lot more improvement. And it&#8217;s great to see people trying to push the boundaries of small, can you make your custom CSS and still get a really beautiful design out there? That can be distributed out to a lot of people. Anders puts his themes out to the community through the theme directory quite often, and I think that he&#8217;s right on the front edge of where things will be in a couple of years.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: And as Anders also opened up his GitHub repost for the theme, so you can actually learn from his coding and kind of inspect them a little bit closer if you want to. So, the second post on the developer blog is a PHP developer&#8217;s guide to getting started with Block Development by Michael Burridge, and he practically gives you a roadmap of what you need to learn or what you need as tooling and also some shortcuts and tips. If you are new to modern JavaScript development, it&#8217;s all in one place so you don&#8217;t have to chase other sources. You might need to read up a few things, but also have some great links for you to study more.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Daisy Olsen</em>: I love the approach of moving into trying to help PHP developers because so many of us are coming from that side of things as WordPress-focused developers. And sometimes the JavaScript is especially modern. JavaScript is, it&#8217;s kind of daunting.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: If you start researching yourself if you don&#8217;t know where to focus. So having a curated guide is really valuable and cuts down a lot of the time that you would need to do your own research. Still and he says it in his post as well. There are some hurdles or learning curves to overcome, especially with react. But there&#8217;s also some great abstraction in Gutenberg that you can get quite a long way adopting the blocks without actually touching JavaScript. What comes to mind is block styles, block patterns with new locking features. I can see that a few agencies might say, &#8220;Okay, we are not creating new blocks because now with the block patterns.&#8221; We can style them and we can lock them down for our users to use, and we don&#8217;t have to create new JavaScript for that. That&#8217;s also a great approach is to kind of think about when do I actually have to start developing for my own custom blocks.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>A while ago, must have been maybe a year and a half ago, Victor Ramirez and I, we had a little live Q&amp;A on that approach to kind of see what an agency approach could be in a gradual adopting, here&#8217;s the word again, gradual adopting the new things. When do you really need a developer where designers and content creators actually can go a long way. So, I&#8217;ll put the link to that video and all the resources there into the show notes, so you can look up about it as well. So, the training team published two-part courses talking about block themes. It&#8217;s the developers Guide to block themes, part one and part two. So that is definitely a great resource if you want to go from Zero to Hero and get all the latest features in there. And of course, the links are in the show notes developer&#8217;s guide to. But they&#8217;re all published on learn.wordpress.org. That&#8217;s a fabulous site. And I know that some of your events that you did on online education Daisy are also available through the site.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Daisy Olsen</em>: I have some workshops published there, and also, I will occasionally run online workshops through the Learn WordPress Meetup group, which is also part of the training team&#8217;s efforts.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3><strong>Community Contributions</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: Awesome. Awesome. All right. We&#8217;re coming to Community Contributions and then we are for the release. I just wanted to give a shout-out to Jean-Baptist Audras address from the Whodunit Agency and is also outgoing team rep of the WordPress court team. And he tweeted that his agency released two new plug-ins mini micro plugins with creating accessible content. One is called Lang Attribute for the Block Editor. When you change in your writing the language that you can add a Lang attribute to your paragraph tag or whatever block that is, which makes you then also compact or compliant with accessibility standards for language of parts.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then, the second plugin is the abbreviation button for the block editor. Which helps you provide definitions for abbreviations using the tag the HTML tag, &lt;abbr&gt; element. And it&#8217;s quite neat because then you get a little, if there is an abbreviation, you get a little on the front end, a little squiggly line or something like that where you can point to it with your mouse and then get the long content for the abbreviation, which is actually quite neat.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>He also tweeted that worth noting that indicating language changes in content is mandatory for the WCAG or CWE compliance. And there is currently no way to do this in the block editor except for adding the code manually, editing the code manually. And this features, he says, continues this feature should be implemented natively into Gutenberg. And I just did a little digging and there has been an open issue and it&#8217;s actually goes back to the accessibility audit and there has been some movement, but not we need some developer to kind of get it on it and fix it or put it into a core. All right.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3><strong>What’s Released &#8211; Gutenberg 14.7</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Daisy Olsen</em>: So, let&#8217;s move on to the Changelog for Gutenberg 14.7. Gutenberg 14.7 was released this week with 165 merch PRs by 48 contributors, nine of which were first timers. And it&#8217;s packed with quite a few features, some of which are pretty experimental. And you would need to enable them through the experiment settings. And namely, that is a tabbed sidebar that splits out your block control settings between appearance, tools, styles, and other settings. Hopefully the hope there is to make it a little easier to navigate big improvements to the navigation block media selection from the inserter and more controls for the inner blocks of flex layout blocks. Other core blocks receive some small refinements that make the overall experience more consistent. There are also 19 bug fixes for accessibility improvements and quite a few documentation and code quality updates.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: And congratulations, Daisy, for your first Gutenberg plug-in release. How was that experience?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Daisy Olsen</em>: It was exciting and I learned a lot about how the release post comes together quite a bit that goes into it and I hope that I have another opportunity to go through this process again.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: I found it when I did. So, mine was actually 13.7 yours were 14.7 so it&#8217;s kind of a bookend kind of there. And I really learned quite a bit how the whole thing comes together and about PRs and about all the processes that there are quite a few automations happening and how to handle between release candidate and stable, how to handle updates that need to get into the release. Everybody who wants to be should start reading about the release process and see if you want to volunteer for that. That definitely needs some technology background on that. That&#8217;s not something for a fly-by contributor of course, but you get help from others.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<h3><strong>Enhancements</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>All right let&#8217;s dive into the changelog as mentioned, the block library, some standard core blocks got some refinements. The first one is that the heading block now has a class name of WP/block/heading, which means that you can target any heading with your CSS, and now that that&#8217;s in place. And it&#8217;s kind of a prototype of getting other blocks, also having a specific class name so you can target again, that was some in and out from the team that it was in there at the beginning and then they were moved around a bit and now they&#8217;re coming back.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I see how that&#8217;s kind of going to work out the navigation block, I think we&#8217;re going to talk about the navigation a little later in quite some detail because it has a revamp and it&#8217;s in the experiment. We&#8217;re going to talk about that a little later. The template part block has now you now see in the site editor the colorized template parts, what is ahead of, or what&#8217;s a reusable block when you go down the list view on the left-hand side, you see some color coding there. Your eyes and your brain can better disseminate the different pieces of your page.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Daisy Olsen</em>: I really like that. I find visual cues to be very helpful. Things like if I were on a staging site, I might change the theme on it to be some obnoxious color on the admin side. I know that I&#8217;m in staging, but this is a small improvement just to give you a visual cue of what is a bigger piece of your list view rather than the individual blocks that are within the content.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: And your reusable block, I don&#8217;t know if you said it, but the reusable blocks also have this colorized outline. The page list block hasn&#8217;t been touched for a while, but it gets on refinements that it actually expands in the list view, and you can change the starting page. If you are on a page that&#8217;s kind of the beginning of a set of other pages here, like a hierarchy, you can add links to the subpages in the page list block that you can add to the side of your page. So, you can outline the subpages as well. That was still missing. It was available in the other editor, in the menus, but the list block now has that, too. And the table block now, there are a lot of things that can be done to improve the table block. But now, it supports the colspan attribute so you can merge cells from the same column into one place in the table HTML and you have some listed tables if you want to. But that was definitely important when you copy-paste tables from another page or another text editor into the block editor that you keep the colspan attribute aligned so the columns and rows align correctly.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Daisy Olsen</em>: I&#8217;d say that, just in general, anytime we improve the ability to paste content in from another place is a good thing. Because the truth is that we don&#8217;t always start our writing within WordPress or we&#8217;re using something that was collaborated on some other location. So, trying to keep things aligned with how they might exist in other places is super helpful.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: Really. Well, really, we use Google Docs quite a bit, or I use Google Docs quite a bit. And from the beginning of the block editor, I was so amazed how seamless the copy and paste works from Google Docs to block editor, if you are sparse with your design on Google Docs. The layout you have to do on the other side, but it brought over the headings, the list, the indented list, and all that. It&#8217;s a really good place. But now, we can also do the tables, yes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Daisy Olsen</em>: Another thing that I use is to pull in markdown, and I love that it just magically turns into HTML.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: Yeah. There are actually markdown shortcuts that you can use on the block editor, yeah. That&#8217;s really cool. I need to do more markdown. When you paste markdown into GitHub, it kind of ceases that code and you cannot&#8230; It was weird. But post it into WordPress, and you can all read it. So, there was quite a few changes to the components, mostly adding a new opt-in for background color and for opt-in props. So, you can actually use that component.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The global styles component got a new on-change action. So, when the color to the color palette, so when you click on the color palette on the&#8230; So, on the right-hand side, you see the color palettes and you see, every time you change the color, the little circle next to the property takes on the color. But when you click on it, it always went back to the default setting of the color palette.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Now, when you click on it, you see the color that was in there before also in that little window in the color palette. So, if you just want to change the view of a color, then you don&#8217;t have to navigate to the color again and then change the views. You really see, okay, this was before and this is&#8230; So, it&#8217;s a really good improvement for changing colors. And yeah, I really love it. That&#8217;s why I pointed it out.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The others are more like code quality improvements there. And then, now, the block editor gets the insert of the block editor. It gets a new media tap. So, now, you will be able to add pictures right from the inserter instead of going to go to the media library selected, come back to the editor. It&#8217;s now very seamless, which means that there are additional tabs. There&#8217;s one additional tab. And it gets a little crowded. So, you have the blocks, then you have the patterns, then the media tab. And your reusable block are still there, but they are replaced by an icon. And that&#8217;s the icon that you see on other reusable block references. So, I really like it. You get also some preview to the pictures. And so, it&#8217;s tested out. It&#8217;s quite amazing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Daisy Olsen</em>: And then at the bottom of the area, you still get an option to load up the old media library modal overlay. So, if you prefer that, it&#8217;s still there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: Yeah, good point. Because the media library view gives you a lot more pictures to look at to select from. Because the other pictures in that view, you see one at a time in a little preview and you have to scroll through them. But if it&#8217;s just an image that you uploaded the last week or the last two weeks, depending on how much content you provide, it&#8217;s a really neat shortcut.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Daisy Olsen</em>: So, the layouts control has been added to flex layout blocks, notably the row and the stack, so that you can fit. What is it? Fit, flex, and contain. Basically, those are not the right words. I wish I have to cover.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: Fluid.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Daisy Olsen</em>: Yes. So, it gives you more control over how those two group block types will display the blocks or how the inner blocks or child blocks will be structured.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: You also get now a minimum height block support under dimensions for the container block. Container block is like a group block or the cover block. Because it&#8217;s hard to fill something when it&#8217;s in it, it doesn&#8217;t have a maximum height thing or minimum height to put an image that fills up the whole block. So, that&#8217;s also something in there. And you can also resize the children or inner blocks. Resizing children is really hard. That&#8217;s why I try to find a different. Because the parent-child relationship, that&#8217;s more like a developer thing. It&#8217;s not for, yeah&#8230; But, yeah, that&#8217;s a great addition to that. Scrolling down to the experiments. And then, there&#8217;s a whole lot of things for the navigation block.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3><strong>Experiments</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Daisy Olsen</em>: So, there&#8217;s a new experiment flag that you can enable or opt into by going to Gutenberg experiments and checking the box. And what this is going to add is, in the sidebar controls for your blocks, where you would normally set your appearance settings or any other settings that are part of that block, it&#8217;s going to split out the appearance items from everything else. So, there will be a new tab interface in that sidebar, so that you can minimize the amount of scrolling that you need to do. So, it&#8217;s an experiment. And feedback, obviously, welcome. I don&#8217;t know how much it&#8217;ll change, but it&#8217;s a cool idea. I like anything that we can do to make the interface less overwhelming will be beneficial. But that is a new experiment. And I look forward to seeing how it evolves.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: The navigation block also uses that space in the sidebar to actually have an off-canvas editor. That&#8217;s how it&#8217;s used now that, in the sidebar, so you get a list of your pages or the menu items that are in the navigation block. So, you have a little bit more space to edit them and rearrange them and, also, add new pages to it, because the little place that you had in the navigation block, if it&#8217;s in the header, you have overlapping issues with links and setting block tube settings. And it was a total chaos, I would say. Yeah, if you really wanted to get in there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And it was hard to actually add sub menus. And this feature makes it really, really easy to create sub menus. And it&#8217;s almost like a mini-version of the old menu navigator from the WP admin, the old menu settings there. And you can add and remove pages or links quite easily now, in addition to the being able to add other blocks to the navigation bar, like a search block or a site logo block like that. So, yeah, test out the new navigation block, because it&#8217;s a test that has gotten quite a few revamps from the original features, and if you like it better.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, the experimental settings that you see now in that menu item, one is the zoomed-out view where you can see all your template ports and all your themes all in one place in thumbnails. And then, the off-canvas navigation editor. And then, there&#8217;s also a&#8230; I haven&#8217;t tried it yet, but I heard about it yesterday on the hallway hangout for the FSE project. There is a global styles color randomizer. So, if you are not very good in color combinations, you can select one color, or the randomizer gives you a full palette for your styles. It&#8217;s a really interesting thing. It&#8217;s more a gimmick, but it&#8217;s like the dual tone or the gradient.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But the people who want to work with colors, it&#8217;s definitely an improvement. And then, the fourth one is the block inspector tabs would be with the settings and the appearance controls changed. So, for experience, it&#8217;s been a while that we had four experiments happening in the block editor. I think it was the early days of full-site editing, had quite a few experiments. But that was back in 2020, early 2020. And now, two years later, almost three years later, we have new experiments, also.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Daisy Olsen</em>: I think that&#8217;s a great thing because it shows we&#8217;re feeling confident with what&#8217;s not experimental anymore enough to go out into new territory again.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: Sometimes, it&#8217;s also hard to isolate a feature into a separate place that it&#8217;s turned on and off. But yeah, it definitely has&#8230; But you need testers. So, if you are in the get the new version, check it out and let your feedback be known. It&#8217;s really important that those things are tested very early and feedback comes in, even if it&#8217;s not testing or if you don&#8217;t find a bug, but you say something is quirky or, &#8220;I don&#8217;t understand things, yet,&#8221; it&#8217;s very, very helpful when you let the team know. The document there were&#8230; Do you have anything else that you wanted to add to that?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Daisy Olsen</em>: No, all good.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3><strong>Documentation</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: There are a few documentation edits happening there. And I only want to point out that the storybook site that&#8217;s online or that you also can get locally with the Gutenberg thing has now a link to the component folder on GitHub. When you look at a component with all the isolated, with all the features or features, attributes, on and off switches, different color scheme, you can test it on the storybook site. But when you want to check out the component, you get a direct link to the place in the Gutenberg report for the source code, so you can really double-check certain things. So, it&#8217;s a really good tool when you get down to the component level on whatever you want to build and use the storyboard to test your code.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3><strong>What is Active Development or Discussed</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>So, this was the Gutenberg 14.7 change log. Well, thank you for going over it with me, Daisy. We are now in the section what&#8217;s in active development. And I have a few things there. One of them is that the team is working on making style variations theme-agnostic. What I understood with that is that you can use theme style variations that you selected even with a different theme.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Daisy Olsen</em>: There are a few parts of it, the way that I&#8217;ve seen it in the design panels. And one is the other installed themes that may not be active on your site. The variations will be available, also, to be able to edit them.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: Cool.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Daisy Olsen</em>: Which is very cool. And then, to be able to import and export style variations from other places is another piece of it. So, I think that just a general expansion of the way that we can work with style variations is going to be really interesting. But, yes, theme agnostic is a great way to put it, because really, with the right base for how those style variations are created, particularly in terms of how things are named for color palettes and such, you should be able to take a style variation and put it onto any site that&#8217;s using a theme.JSON. So, I think that it&#8217;s been a really great thing with the way that 2023 default theme was created. And it spearheaded this idea that we should be able to use these in more than one way. But this is one piece of making it easier to switch themes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: And even if that&#8217;s not a one-on-one good fit, you definitely get 80% there when you switch a theme to use the same styles that you had and then adopt what is missing. Because, you mentioned in the sentences, if the color scheme is not standardized from one style variation to the other, it might be a little bit wonky at first, but you can certainly adjust it. And I also can see one feature that could be used someplace else or in some other way is to just import style variations from other places. Like, if a theme developer has a website where have additional style variations that he doesn&#8217;t want to package with his or her theme, it certainly would make it available, just download it and add it to it. I can also see the 2023 theme as a community-wide effort. And there were 38 style variations that were submitted to be included, and 10 of those were selected. But now, there might come a way where you can actually add some of the others into your site, at least.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>All right. So, Joen Asmussen, he&#8217;s on the design team and one of the early design leads on Gutenberg, has started quite a while ago, every two weeks, posting on the design team&#8217;s make blog his design shares. And the one from last week had a few things in there that I want to point out. So, wordpress.org is in a huge site overhaul. And in the post, you see the markups of the dev hub, which is the developer site, and the job site. And there&#8217;s some great visuals. Sorry, I can&#8217;t show them to you in the podcast. But, of course, I share the link in the show notes. But you see the updates of the dev hub pages as well as the jobs pages on the org, on how they are designed and worked on right now by the meta team. Have you seen those designs?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Daisy Olsen</em>: Some of them. I haven&#8217;t seen the post, but I saw some of the designs other places, the meta team.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: The design process is quite a long one. There&#8217;s a second round of feedback now through the docs team because they are the owner of the sites. So, maybe I should find that as well and put it in the show notes. Another one is that the design team created the designs for a future style block. No, style book, not a block, style book. The name is still not final, but what it is, is actually a neat feature where you can see on a screen for each block how it&#8217;ll appear on your site. That&#8217;s not new. You had this with any of the themes that you got a page where you can look through how my heading&#8217;s going to be looking at. But now it&#8217;s for every block. And you can now, also, on the right-hand side, see when you check a different style variation, see how the blocks change with that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And that is a fabulous feature. It really makes that coming up with new things or checking out new things like a new style variation, or so. It comes really handy. There is no surprise. There is no, &#8220;Oh, Don, we didn&#8217;t look at it beforehand, but there are two things wrong with the table block,&#8221; or something like that. You see it before you do it. And then, you can do some fixes, if you want to. But you see how the site really works, not only on the front page but with every block that you put in there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And when I tested it, what I also saw is that it also includes the third-party blocks. So, if you have from JetBag or from Jost or from Coblocks, all those blocks will also show up in that and you see how they will change with a change of the style variations, which is, I find that particularly important because many of those block suites came out in the early days of the block editor, and some of them have not been updated. And you will see it there, too, and see which ones are actually a little bit that needs some more TLC there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Daisy Olsen</em>: I think of this as like a unit testing feature. But rolled in, instead of having to be imported, it&#8217;s available. Once it gets in, it would be available all the time. So, you can always double-check how things are looking without importing content or some of the other ways that we&#8217;ve had to do this kind of unit testing in the past.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: The feature is merged into the code base. And it&#8217;ll be released in the 14.8 release. But it&#8217;s also available, it&#8217;s already available in the Gutenberg Nightly version, if you want to download that and get an early look at it. I really loved it. And then the last one from that post is the&#8230; Is it in any post? There is a video in the design post on the reorganization of the editor.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>It&#8217;s also coming or slated for 14.8, is that the editor screens receive some reorganization that it&#8217;s better positioned for the future enhancements like the browse mode. And the poster design post has a short video for the new way of things. So, it&#8217;s more like an organized version. Right now, when you click on the appearance editor link in the WP admin, where you get your right into the editor of your homepage, which is a little bit confusing, now, when you click on it, you get the menu on the left-hand side.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And what you see in the canvas is actually just a view. There&#8217;s an edit button where you can start the editing, but you are not going to edit by accident. Or, you can then navigate to the other template parts much easier instead of getting out of the canvas. There are all these little things where little annoying things are taken care of. And I&#8217;m looking forward to that. Some of the UI experiments, new UI is already in the experiments, but that gives them a new home, so to speak. Any comments on that?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Daisy Olsen</em>: No, I look forward to seeing more about what&#8217;s coming.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: It&#8217;s really cool. I think there&#8217;s so much more coming. And I&#8217;m looking forward to 6.2 because some of it is definitely slated. We don&#8217;t have any plans yet on the 6.2 release cycle. That&#8217;s a very shortening&#8230; It&#8217;s a nice shortening of things. Instead of release cycle, you say recycle. Well, the state of the word is coming up. And I&#8217;m sure we hear a little bit about what&#8217;s coming in 2023, a review of 2022. It&#8217;s on December 15th at 1:00 p.m. Eastern 1800 DTC. I always need to check my calculations on the time zones. That&#8217;s just a shout-out for don&#8217;t miss it. It will be recorded, of course, for anybody who has no time at 1:00 p.m. or in the evening. So, Daisy, is there anything? How can people reach you if they wanted to connect with you? And what is in store on the online meetup?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Daisy Olsen</em>: Let&#8217;s see. So, nothing scheduled for online meetup, as we&#8217;re coming into the holiday season. If you&#8217;d like to get in touch with me, I am Daisy O, the letter &#8220;O,&#8221; on mixed Slack. And also, that&#8217;s my WordPress profile. Most other places, Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, I&#8217;m DaisyOlsen, all one word.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: All right. So, so we&#8217;re coming to the end of the show, and I will thank you very much for spending the time with me here and going through the change log. Good work on all the good educational pieces that you do. And if you have any questions, still listening about block themes, you can contact me. But I will point you to Daisy, in shortcut, unless we find, of course, already material online. She also has one post in the developer blog. What is that about?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Daisy Olsen</em>: It was about the various ways you can use the home template and post template options and theming.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: Excellent. As always, the show notes will be published on the gutenbergtimes.com/podcast. This is episode 77. And if you have questions and suggestions or news that you want us to include, send them to <a href=\"mailto:changelog@gutenbergtimes.com\">changelog@gutenbergtimes.com</a>. That&#8217;s <a href=\"mailto:changelog@gutenbergtimes.com\">changelog@gutenbergtimes.com</a>. Yes, that&#8217;s an email address. No slack, no Twitter. Well, of course, you can always follow us on @gutenbergtimes on Twitter. We also have pinned on the profile page our place on Mastodon. If you have left Twitter, just go there. It&#8217;s a public page. You can still see it and link it. Thank you all for listening. Thank you, Daisy. Wishing everyone wonderful holidays and a happy new year. And I&#8217;ll see you on the other side until 2023. Goodbye.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Daisy Olsen</em>: Thanks so much for having me, Birgit. And happy holidays to everyone.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Mon, 12 Dec 2022 02:40:51 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:19:\"Gutenberg Changelog\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:48;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:95:\"Gutenberg Times: State of the Word, Gutenberg 14.7, Box Shadow and more – Weekend Edition 238\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35:\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/?p=22914\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:100:\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/state-of-the-word-gutenberg-14-7-box-shadow-and-more-weekend-edition-238/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:24888:\"<p>Howdy,</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Going through the latest Gutenberg release, and seeing what is in store for the next one, I feel, fantastic progress has been made on Phase 2 of the block editor. WordPress will be in great shape to start the next phase: collaborative editing.  If you are keen to learn more, I suggest you watch <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/news/2022/11/state-of-the-word-2022/\">next week&#8217;s State of the Word</a>.  As always, it will be recorded, and you can watch it at your leisure. </p>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://wordpress.org/news/2022/11/state-of-the-word-2022/\"><img /></a>\n\n\n\n<p>I&#8217;d be interested in your take of the keynote as well as the Q &amp; A that will be held afterwards. I hope you write with your thoughts.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Until next week, be well! </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yours, 💕<br /><em>Birgit</em></p>\n\n\n\n<h2 id=\"0-strong-a-href-https-us-02-web-zoom-us-webinar-register-7616700808432-wn-ig-f-xjz-c-qym-tk-62-c-v-9-ocw-layout-layout-layout-a-strong\">Layout. Layout. Layout</h2>\n\n\n\n<p><strong><a href=\"https://us02web.zoom.us/webinar/register/7616700808432/WN_IG_fXjzCQymTk62cV9_ocw\">Reserve your seats!</a></strong> The next <strong>Gutenberg Live Q &amp; A</strong> will take place on January 11th, 2023 at 5pm ET / 22:00 UTC . </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Layouts are a fundamental part of how block themes work: Layout allows us to define the width of our post content, and arrange blocks horizontally or vertically, right or left aligned, inside container blocks. In terms of block styling, Layout is a complex feature because it affects child blocks in ways that go beyond CSS inheritance.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>In this show, <strong>Isabel Brison</strong>, <strong>Andrew Serong</strong> and <strong>Justin Tadlock</strong> will discuss the opportunities and challenges of the Layout features for site builders, and they will be available to answer your questions. Isabel Brison will also give us a demo of various layout scenarios. <strong><a href=\"https://us02web.zoom.us/webinar/register/7616700808432/WN_IG_fXjzCQymTk62cV9_ocw\">Join us! </a></strong></p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>This is also a preview on <a href=\"https://asia.wordcamp.org/2023/session/layout-layout-layout/\">Isabel Brison&#8217;s talk at WordCamp Asia</a></em> i<em>n February 2023</em></p>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://us02web.zoom.us/webinar/register/7616700808432/WN_IG_fXjzCQymTk62cV9_ocw\"><img /></a>\n\n\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Lana Miro</strong> collected <a href=\"https://crocoblock.com/blog/best-wordpress-podcasts-to-listen/\"><strong>16 Best WordPress Podcasts to Listen To (Top Selection)</strong></a>. She wrote about the Gutenberg Changelog: &#8220;This podcast is not just about WordPress in general but specifically about the Gutenberg block editor. In each episode, host Birgit Pauli-Haack and a guest discuss the latest version of Gutenberg and any related issues. They do all the hard work of curating news of Gutenberg’s development and then present it with infectious enthusiasm.&#8221; Thank you, Lana &nbsp;💞</p>\n\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-light-background-background-color has-background is-layout-flow\"><div class=\"wp-block-group__inner-container\">\n<p><strong>Table of Contents</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-sortabrilliant-guidepost\"><ul><li><a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/feed/#0-strong-a-href-https-us-02-web-zoom-us-webinar-register-7616700808432-wn-ig-f-xjz-c-qym-tk-62-c-v-9-ocw-layout-layout-layout-a-strong\">Layout. Layout. Layout</a></li><li><a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/feed/#0-word-press-release-information\">Developing Gutenberg and WordPress</a><ul><li><a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/feed/#2-gutenberg-14-7-released\">Gutenberg 14.7 release</a></li></ul></li><li><a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/feed/#0-p\">Plugins, Themes, and Tools for #nocode site builders and owners</a></li><li><a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/feed/#2-word-press-6-0-1-and-6-1-scheduled\">Theme Development for Full Site Editing and Blocks</a></li><li><a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/feed/#3-building-themes-for-fse-and-word-press\">Building Blocks and Tools for the Block editor. </a></li><li><a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/feed/#6-new-videos\"> New videos </a><ul><li><a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/feed/#7-word-press-tv\">WordPressTV</a></li></ul></li><li><a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/feed/#5-s\">Upcoming WordPress events</a><ul><li><a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/feed/#1-l\">Learn WordPress Online Meetups</a></li></ul></li></ul></div>\n</div></div>\n\n\n\n\n<h2 id=\"0-word-press-release-information\">Developing Gutenberg and WordPress</h2>\n\n\n\n<h3 id=\"2-gutenberg-14-7-released\">Gutenberg 14.7 release</h3>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Gutenberg 14.7 </strong>was released this week, with 165 merged PRs by 48 Contributors, 9 were first timers! And it’s packed with quite a few features, some of them still experimental. You see big improvements to the navigation block, a media selection from the inserter and more controls for the inner blocks of flex layout blocks. Other core blocks received some small refinements that make the overall experience more consistent.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Daisy Olsen</strong>, lead for Gutenberg 14.7 plugin release, wrote in the post. <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2022/12/09/whats-new-in-gutenberg-14-7-7-december/\"><strong>What’s new in Gutenberg 14.7? (7 December)</strong></a>,  &#8220;It introduces a new experimental tabbed&nbsp;sidebar, colors to help identify some&nbsp;block&nbsp;types in list view, and improvements to the Page List block to make it easier to manage page links in your content.&#8221; </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Olsen highlighted the following features:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2022/12/09/whats-new-in-gutenberg-14-7-7-december/#improved-organization-of-block-settings-with-split-control\">Improved organization of block settings with split control</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2022/12/09/whats-new-in-gutenberg-14-7-7-december/#quickly-identify-template-parts-and-reusable-blocks-by-color\">Quickly identify Template Parts and Reusable Blocks by color</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2022/12/09/whats-new-in-gutenberg-14-7-7-december/#add-media-to-your-content-directly-from-the-inserter\">Add media to your content directly from the inserter</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2022/12/09/whats-new-in-gutenberg-14-7-7-december/#see-all-pages-in-list-view-for-the-page-list-block\">See all pages in List View for the Page List block&nbsp;</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2022/12/09/whats-new-in-gutenberg-14-7-7-december/#layout-controls-added-to-children-of-flex-layout-blocks\">Layout controls added to children of flex layout blocks</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2022/12/09/whats-new-in-gutenberg-14-7-7-december/#improved-load-times-by-caching-the-results-of-querying-settings-from-theme-json\">Improved load times by caching the results of querying settings from theme.json</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p>Yesterday, <strong>Daisy Olsen</strong> and I recorded the 77th Episode of the Gutenberg Changelog. It was such a great pleasure to discuss the release and what&#8217;s coming next for the block editor. The episode will arrive at your favorite podcast app over the weekend. </p>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/\"><img /></a>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-light-background-background-color has-background is-layout-flow\"><div class=\"wp-block-group__inner-container\">\n<p><strong>🎙️ </strong> New episode:  <a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/gutenberg-changelog-77-gutenberg-14-7-whats-new-for-block-themes-an-upcoming-live-qa-in-january/\">Gutenberg Changelog #77 – Gutenberg 14.7, what’s new for Block Themes, an upcoming Live Q&amp;A in January</a> with special guest, Daisy Olsen and host Birgit Pauli-Haack. </p>\n</div></div>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Anne McCarthy</strong>, who runs the FSE Outreach program held this week&#8217;s <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/test/2022/12/08/hallway-hangout-lets-chat-about-the-future-of-custom-css-with-block-themes/\"><strong>Hallway Hangout: Let’s chat about the Future of Custom CSS with block themes</strong></a> and posted the recording and a summary. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>In another update from the FSE Program, Anne McCarthy is<a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/test/2022/12/07/fse-program-seeking-volunteers-to-use-replay-io-for-capturing-bugs/\"><strong> seeking volunteers to use Replay.io for capturing bugs</strong></a> . After using Instant WP for spinning up test site for call for testings, Anne McCarthy will expand the program to pilot using Replay.io. Volunteers will  &#8220;help determine how it can be used to better WordPress’ bug finding and fixing feedback&nbsp;loop.&#8221;</p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-light-background-background-color has-background is-layout-constrained\"><div class=\"wp-block-group__inner-container\">\n<p>The <strong><a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/\">WordPress Developer Blog</a></strong> is still in beta. The editorial group is working on getting more posts published. If you want to write a blog post that would help WordPress developer be successful building themes or plugins or bespoke site for client, browse through the <a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/developer-blog-content/discussions/categories/topic-ideas\">topic Ideas, that have already been submitted</a>.  </p>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/how-to-contribute/\">How to contribute</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/tips-and-guidelines-for-writers/\">Tips and guidelines for writers</a></li>\n</ul>\n</div></div>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Alvaro Gómez</strong> posted about <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/support/2022/12/introducing-the-block-editor-in-the-support-forums/\"><strong>Introducing the Block Editor in the Support Forums</strong></a>; only a few core-block will be allowed. &#8220;Users will be able to easily insert links, share code or embed screenshots. Using Blocks will also enable new possibilities, such as using patterns for common responses to allow for faster answers.&nbsp;&#8221; he wrote.  If I read it right and the current editor in use &#8220;predates TinyMCE&#8221;, then this might be the first update to the forums editor since the start of the website in 2003. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>For now, it&#8217;s available via a test site, and you are invited to try it and share your feedback on the <a href=\"https://meta.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/6608\">meta trac ticket. </a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Sarah Gooding</strong> also reported on this update: <a href=\"https://wptavern.com/the-block-editor-is-coming-to-wordpress-support-forums\"><strong>The Block Editor Is Coming to WordPress’ Support Forums</strong></a></p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<h2 id=\"0-p\">Plugins, Themes, and Tools for #nocode site builders and owners</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>In her article <strong><a href=\"https://wptavern.com/woocommerce-blocks-9-1-0-introduces-products-block-in-beta\">WooCommerce Blocks 9.1.0 Introduces Products Block in Beta</a> Sarah Gooding</strong> reports on the latest release of WooCommerce Blocks. &#8220;The plugin serves as a place to iterate and test new blocks, and this release introduces the new Product Query-powered Products block in beta. (&#8230;) The new Products block is based on the core Query Loop block. WooCommerce Blocks contributors are aiming to replace all the plugin’s current product-displaying blocks with this one.&#8221;</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rich Tabor</strong>, theme and plugin developer, was <a href=\"https://richtabor.com/wordpress-design-tool/\"><strong>exploring WordPress as a design tool</strong></a>. It&#8217;s the story of how he challenged himself to take one pattern,&nbsp;from one theme, and morph it multiple times — only using the design controls of the block editor.  &#8220;Every font family/size, color, border, radius, image, video, and spacing value were all added in-editor.&#8221; And he also challenges you to give this a try: </p>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><em>Use only the&nbsp;<a href=\"https://wordpress.org/themes/twenty-twenty-three\">Twenty Twenty-Three&nbsp;</a><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/themes/twentytwentythree\">theme</a>.&nbsp;</em></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Design a section of a page, then </li>\n\n\n\n<li>morph it a couple of times using only the design tooling within the editor.&nbsp;</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://richtabor.com/wordpress-design-tool/\"><img /></a>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Automattic&#8217;s Sensei LMS</strong> has <a href=\"https://senseilms.com/meet-course-a-new-free-block-theme-by-sensei/\"><strong>released a new free block theme called &#8220;Course.&#8221;</strong></a> It is designed for creators and is built to work perfectly with all Sensei LMS features, including course lists, sales pages, and learning mode course templates. It is also open-source and <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/themes/course/\">available on WordPress.org</a>, making it ideal for course creators, bloggers, coaches, small businesses, and even those using competitor LMS WordPress plugins. The theme is mobile-optimized and allows for customization to match your brand.</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p><strong><a href=\"https://jetpack.com/blog/jetpack-11-6-update-to-the-form-block-and-more/\">Jetpack 11.6 release</a></strong> added new features to its forms and SEO capabilities. It now has block pattern support for forms, making it easier to create them, and new SEO features allowing users to specify that certain posts or pages should not be indexed by search engines, and to set custom SEO titles for individual posts and pages.</p>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://jetpack.com/blog/jetpack-11-6-update-to-the-form-block-and-more/\"><img /></a>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://wptavern.com/podcast/54-steve-burge-on-where-were-at-with-multi-author-collaboration-in-wordpress\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">#54 – </a><strong><a href=\"https://wptavern.com/podcast/54-steve-burge-on-where-were-at-with-multi-author-collaboration-in-wordpress\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Steve Burge on Where We’re at With Multi-Author Collaboration in WordPress</a> </strong>with Nathan Wrigley. On this episode of the Jukebox podcast from WP Tavern, the topic is multi-author collaboration in WordPress. Steve Burge discusses the current state of collaboration in WordPress, the challenges that come with it, and what the future holds for the platform. Burge also elaborates on the site editing phase of the Gutenberg project and how it relates to collaboration.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 id=\"2-word-press-6-0-1-and-6-1-scheduled\">Theme Development for Full Site Editing and Blocks</h2>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Justin Tadlock</strong> just published a new post on the WordPress Developer Blog:  <a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2022/12/07/leveraging-theme-json-and-per-block-styles-for-more-performant-themes/\"><strong>Leveraging theme.json and per-block styles for more performant themes</strong></a>. I<a href=\"https://twitter.com/justintadlock/status/1600623143558828034\">n a tweet</a> he wrote: &#8220;This post dives into how to primarily lean into theme.json when styling your theme, taking advantage of the built-in performance enhancements that WordPress offers out of the box, such as only outputting CSS when it&#8217;s needed. All theme authors know that theme.json isn&#8217;t quite enough for every project. However, you can benefit from those same enhancements by loading per-block stylesheets. This is also great for integrating with third-party blocks without bulking up your CSS.&#8221; </p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n\n<p><strong>&nbsp;<a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">&#8220;Keeping up with Gutenberg &#8211; Index 2022&#8221;</a>&nbsp;</strong><br />A chronological list of the WordPress Make Blog posts from various teams involved in Gutenberg development: Design, Theme Review Team, Core Editor, Core JS, Core CSS, Test and Meta team from Jan. 2021 on. Updated by yours truly.  <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index-2020/\"><em>The index 2020 is here</em></a></p>\n\n\n\n\n<p>In his article on the CSS Tricks, <a href=\"https://css-tricks.com/adding-box-shadows-to-wordpress-blocks-and-elements/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\"><strong>Adding Box Shadows to WordPress Blocks and Elements</strong></a>, <strong>Ganesh Dahal</strong> provides you with a tutorial and an example of how to add a `box-shadow` to the hover state of a button in `theme.json`. ICYMI: As of WordPress 6.1, it is possible to add styles to elements and blocks using `theme.json`, including pseudo-classes such as `:hover`. Ben Dwyer wrote the corresponding Dev Note: <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2022/10/10/styling-elements-in-block-themes/\">Styling elements in block themes</a></p>\n\n\n\n<h2 id=\"3-building-themes-for-fse-and-word-press\">Building Blocks and Tools for the Block editor. </h2>\n\n\n\n<p>In his post, <a href=\"https://fluffyandflakey.blog/2022/12/06/access-all-block-attributes-structurally-with-the-gutenberg-block-editor/\"><strong>Access all block attributes structurally with the Gutenberg block editor</strong></a>, <strong>Dennis Snell</strong> wrote &#8220;about a small experiment to eliminate sourced attributes in Gutenberg posts. If you want to build a custom block editor, and you wish to avoid parsing HTML to get the full set of attributes, then it’s strikingly easy to do so: all it takes is disabling a few properties of each block’s attribute definitions.&#8221; Let him tell you more! </p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n\n<p><strong><a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/need-a-zip-from-master/\">Need a plugin .zip from Gutenberg&#8217;s master branch?</a></strong><br />Gutenberg Times provides daily build for testing and review. <br />Have you been using it? Hit reply and let me know.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><img alt=\"GitHub all releases\" src=\"https://img.shields.io/github/downloads/bph/gutenberg/total?style=for-the-badge\" /></p>\n\n\n\n\n<h2 id=\"6-new-videos\"> New videos </h2>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://torquemag.io/2022/12/torque-social-hour-learning-to-use-the-site-editor/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\"><strong>Torque Social Hour: Learning to use the Site Editor</strong></a> with <strong>Brian Gardner.</strong> On this week’s episode, Brian Gardner teaches Doc the fundamentals of editing a block-based WordPress theme with the new Site Editor. Brian designed one of the Style Variations that came in the new Twenty Twenty Three theme.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 id=\"7-word-press-tv\">WordPressTV</h3>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpress.tv/2022/12/09/builder-basics-demystifying-theme-json-and-global-styles/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\"><strong>Builder Basics: Demystifying theme.json and Global Styles</strong></a> (Learn WordPress)</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpress.tv/2022/12/09/manage-your-block-theme-fonts-with-create-block-theme/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\"><strong>Manage your block theme fonts with Create Block Theme</strong></a> (Learn WordPress)</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong><a href=\"https://wordpress.tv/2022/12/08/the-key-to-locking-blocks/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">The key to locking blocks</a> </strong>(Learn WordPress)</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong><a href=\"https://wordpress.tv/2022/12/08/content-creators-are-users-too-the-crucial-importance-of-carefully-crafted-editorial-experiences/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Content creators are users too: the crucial Importance of carefully crafted editorial experiences</a> </strong>(WCUs)</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong><a href=\"https://wordpress.tv/2022/12/07/using-the-navigation-block-2/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Using the navigation block</a> </strong>(Learn WordPress)</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpress.tv/2022/12/02/hallway-hangout-future-of-css-in-block-themes/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\"><strong>Hallway Hangout: the future of CSS in block themes</strong></a> (Learn WordPress)</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong><a href=\"https://wordpress.tv/2022/12/02/builder-basics-building-with-columns-groups-rows-and-stacks/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Builder basics: building with columns, groups, rows and stacks</a> </strong>(Learn WordPress)</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpress.tv/2022/12/02/lets-code-developing-blocks-without-react-controls/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\"><strong>Let’s code: developing blocks without React! – Controls</strong></a> (Learn WordPress)</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpress.tv/2022/11/30/using-page-templates/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\"><strong>Using page templates</strong></a> (Learn WordPress)</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 id=\"5-s\">Upcoming WordPress events</h2>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>December 12, 2022 &#8211; 10 am &#8211; 1:30 pm ET / 15:00 &#8211; 18:30 UTC </strong><br /><a href=\"https://bluehostawards.com/\"><strong>WP CreatorCon</strong>  </a>&#8211;  a virtual event curated by Bluehost to bring together all WordPress creators of the world. It&#8217;s an event that will culminate the Bluehost Creators Awards. </p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>December 15, 2022 – 1 pm ET / 18:00 UTC</strong><br /><strong><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/news/2022/11/state-of-the-word-2022/\">State of the Word 2022</a></strong>&nbsp;– Matt Mullenweg’s annual keynote.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>January 11, 2023 &#8211; 5 pm ET / 22:00 UTC</strong><br /><strong><a href=\"https://us02web.zoom.us/webinar/register/7616700808432/WN_IG_fXjzCQymTk62cV9_ocw\">Gutenberg Times Live Q &amp; A: Layout, layout, layout</a></strong><br />Panel discussion with Isabel Brison, Andrew Serong, Justing Tadlock and Birgit Pauli-Haack</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>February 17 – 19, 2023</strong><br /><a href=\"https://asia.wordcamp.org/2023/\"><strong>WordCamp Asia 2023</strong></a>&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 id=\"1-l\">Learn WordPress Online Meetups</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>December 12, 2022 – 3 pm ET / 22:00 UTC<br /><a href=\"https://www.meetup.com/learn-wordpress-online-workshops/events/289957641/\"><strong>Creating a Call To Action with the Block Editor</strong></a></p>\n\n\n\n<p>December 14, 2022 &#8211; 7 pm ET / 24:00 UTC<br /><a href=\"https://www.meetup.com/learn-wordpress-online-workshops/events/290170169/\"><strong>Exploring Category Templates and the Query Loop Block Session 1</strong></a></p>\n\n\n\n<p>December 15, 2022 &#8211;  9 am ET / 14:00 UTC<br /><strong><a href=\"https://www.meetup.com/learn-wordpress-online-workshops/events/290237910/\">Let&#8217;s code: Developing Blocks without React! &#8211; Review</a></strong></p>\n\n\n\n<p>December 21, 2022 &#8211;  7 pm ET / 24:00 UTC<br /><a href=\"https://www.meetup.com/learn-wordpress-online-workshops/events/290170454/\"><strong>Creating a Theme with the Create Block Theme Plugin Session 1</strong></a></p>\n\n\n\n<p>December 21, 2022 &#8211; 3 am ET / 8 am UTC<br /><strong><a href=\"https://www.meetup.com/learn-wordpress-online-workshops/events/290170469/\">Creating a Theme with the Create Block Theme Plugin Session 2</a></strong></p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n\n<p>Featured Image: &#8220;Galleria Vittorio Emanuele II&#8221; in Milan by Dennis Hipp via <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/photos/photo/6136384d1b/\">WordPress Photos</a> </p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-css-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Don&#8217;t want to miss the next Weekend Edition? </strong></p>\n\n\n\n<form class=\"wp-block-newsletterglue-form ngl-form ngl-portrait\" action=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/feed/\" method=\"post\"><div class=\"ngl-form-container\"><div class=\"ngl-form-field\"><label class=\"ngl-form-label\" for=\"ngl_email\"><br />Type in your Email address to subscribe.</label><div class=\"ngl-form-input\"><input type=\"email\" class=\"ngl-form-input-text\" name=\"ngl_email\" id=\"ngl_email\" /></div></div><button type=\"submit\" class=\"ngl-form-button\">Subscribe</button><p class=\"ngl-form-text\">We hate spam, too and won&#8217;t give your email address to anyone except Mailchimp to send out our Weekend Edition</p></div><div class=\"ngl-message-overlay\"><div class=\"ngl-message-svg-wrap\"></div><div class=\"ngl-message-overlay-text\">Thanks for subscribing.</div></div><input type=\"hidden\" name=\"ngl_list_id\" id=\"ngl_list_id\" value=\"26f81bd8ae\" /><input type=\"hidden\" name=\"ngl_double_optin\" id=\"ngl_double_optin\" value=\"yes\" /></form>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-css-opacity is-style-wide\" />\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Sat, 10 Dec 2022 13:57:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:18:\"Birgit Pauli-Haack\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:49;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:68:\"WPTavern: WooCommerce Blocks 9.1.0 Introduces Products Block in Beta\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:30:\"https://wptavern.com/?p=140245\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:79:\"https://wptavern.com/woocommerce-blocks-9-1-0-introduces-products-block-in-beta\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:2447:\"<p>WooCommerce Blocks<a href=\"https://developer.woocommerce.com/2022/12/09/woocommerce-blocks-9-1-0-release-notes/\"> version 9.10</a> was released today, hitting a major milestone for the development of its new Products Block. 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